Transcript
Chat
Transcript
00:18:38
So Hello, everyone. I’m Nathan Stabina.
00:18:40 I’m vp technologies from sheriff, and, as my mug says, I’m calling in from the shared office, in beautiful downtown Toronto Cheryl Hart works with us. She’s she runs her own shop on task strategies.
00:18:52 And she’s calling in from Richmond Hill, and John Smith’s calling in from beautiful downtown Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta, the site of our technologies Division, as well as where our nickel refinery is so lisa I really wish we had 3 h for you this hour is just gonna fly by. So the topic here is deep in your carbon credit knowledge, and the way it works is, I’ll be asking Lisa some questions discuss amongst yourselves in the chat room.
00:19:24 If you have a specific question, please ask it in the there’s a separate queue and a button.
00:19:31 If Cheryl sees anything exciting, trending in the chat room or yonder, they’ll break in and say, You know, hey, what do you think about this, Lisa?
00:19:40 So in general, you know. There, I’m not an expert on carbon credits, so I am hoping to learn a lot from this session.
00:19:48 But luckily Lisa is we’ll talk about different types of carbon credits.
00:19:53 Some of the the acronyms. What’s in setting?
00:19:56 What’s offsetting the latest developments in carbon credit legislation.
00:20:02 And it’s a chance for us to all learn about a very exciting topic.
00:20:06 So Lisa the Marco, I’ll get you to introduce yourself, but I’ll just give a look a few notes that I have here.
00:20:13 So Lisa is a senior partner, and CEO of Resilient Llp.
00:20:18 She’s a leading figure in sustainability and carbon finance industry.
00:20:22 She’s highly recognized expert in climbing and energy law, and a few people have been messaging us and said, they’ve heard you speak on panels, and they’re they’re quite happy that you’re joining us today.
00:20:32 Extensive background, advising leading financial and energy companies, and she’s recognized as a global elite thought leader in climate change.
00:20:42 And who’s legal. So, Lisa, I know your your backgrounds and legal, but you know I’m hearing to see the overlap with with regulation, with the Finance Society, and so forth.
00:20:55 As you could see. There’s a pool being launched right away.
00:21:00 We just wanna see your opinion that we’ll give the feedback to to Lisa on what you you’re thinking.
00:21:03 So please please answer the poll question before we get started.
00:21:08 So, Lisa, you want to just introduce yourself and let them know what you want them to know about you.
00:21:14 Well, thanks very much, Nathan, and thanks, and Cheryl as well for having me.
00:21:21 I think you’ve covered most of it.
00:21:23 If I had to summarize who I am and what I do, I would say 2 words, and they are carbon nerd.
00:21:31 We really get deep on all aspects of the use of an emission reduction or removal as a form of an asset class to facilitate meeting the parent schools in general and sustainability writ large and that can be part of esg and that can be part
00:21:53 of a prudent finance. Strategy as well. So that’s the summary.
00:21:57 I would add that resilience is Canada’s only climate change, specialized boutique law firm, and we do act in a association with fascin and other firms.
00:22:08 From time to time globally. So a tiny firm with a very, very large back office.
00:22:15 So that’s how we all.
00:22:18 Cheryl do you have the answers to the the poll?
00:22:19 Just curious what people are thinking.
00:22:34 So what he believes the primary function of a carbon credit so be interesting to see how everybody answers now and then.
00:22:40 After they hear some information from Lisa on how everybody feels. At the end of the session.
00:22:47 Okay.
00:22:50 Oh, there’s there’s a mix!
00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:55.000 It’s trending in this. Yeah.
00:22:55.000 –> 00:23:00.000 Exchange. Yeah. Alright. Let’s end the poll.
00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:02.000 Let’s see everybody put it in interpretive answers. Here.
00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:09.000 So about a 60% incentive for emitting less carbon.
00:23:09.000 –> 00:23:10.000 Okay, there you go, Lisa. It’s a good day.
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:17.000 And a third exchange currency between carbon emitter.
00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:18.000 Okay, gives you an idea.
00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:19.000 Okay, so Lisa, a couple, yeah. Couple of questions for you.
00:23:19.000 –> 00:23:26.000 So one. What inspired you to get involved in this field and how long you’ve been doing that.
00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:29.000 Maybe that’s not a fair question to you. You don’t have to answer that one, and yep, go ahead.
00:23:29.000 –> 00:23:34.000 Yeah, I started off as a scientist 5,000 years ago.
00:23:34.000 –> 00:23:51.000 I was doing graduate work on oil spills and using bacteria to clean up oil spills and got really, really interested on what I would call generally green capitalism.
00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:59.000 Using an environmental instrument, or a capital or financial instrument to achieve an environmental outcome.
00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:08.000 And from there really got involved in Knox and socks, trading, and went to school grad, school and law in the States where one of my pros was negotiating the Kyoto protocol and the UN.
00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:32.000 F triple C, and really the power of the market to achieve societal or environmental outcome, or both, really is at the heart of my personal beliefs, and has extraordinary power.
00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:37.000 So that was 30 years ago. Nathan, yeah, yeah.
00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:52.000 I say that quietly now, and it’s migrated through various forms of policy and legislation and involvement with the United Nations and active negotiating the UN. F Triplec.
00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:56.000 The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, and the related elements of the Paris agreement that flow from that.
00:24:56.000 –> 00:25:07.000 So it’s been part passion, part of session, and it’s gone through good years and bad years.
00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:09.000 But really, where we are now is I hate to use the term we’ve come a long way, baby, but we have come a long way.
00:25:09.000 –> 00:25:18.000 Baby. From where we started 30 odd years ago in the development of the policy and the formalization of the instrument.
00:25:18.000 –> 00:25:31.000 Into, I’ll say broadly, an asset class which can be used for varying purposes.
00:25:31.000 –> 00:25:41.000 Just so when I introduce myself, I usually say I have 30 plus years, and somebody told me no, just say 20 plus 20 plus, you know, lots of experience.
00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:45.000 When you say 30 you sound old, but I think they were referring to me, not to you.
00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:47.000 You were much better than I is, so.
00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:50.000 Oh, where? The yeah.
00:25:50.000 –> 00:25:56.000 So, in your opinion, you know what are some of the current trends, and also you know, what do you predict?
00:25:56.000 –> 00:26:03.000 The you know what what future trends will be in this area.
00:26:03.000 –> 00:26:17.000 Yeah, there are a couple of things that we’re really seeing develop very significantly a nature based climate solutions or nbs, as it’s known, or Ncs as it’s known, are really very active.
00:26:17.000 –> 00:26:36.000 And those are either preserving, existing landscapes for us, and preventing deforestation, forest destruction, or reforesting areas that were a forested or destroyed.
00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:41.000 And we’re seeing a lot of initiatives around there, because the narrative is pretty easy to tell.
00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:53.000 If you’re an extractive industry, if you’re speaking to a public trees are inhabited, understandable.
00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:58.000 Some of the other elements, of how you would create a carbon creditor are trickier to understand.
00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:11.000 So so those forms of emission, reductions and emission removals where you’re planting in an area that’s never been planted or really, really attractive and growing in importance in price.
00:27:11.000 –> 00:27:12.000 And the second major trend that we see is in relation to negative emissions.
00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:23.000 Technology solution removals. You saw in an article in the Globe yesterday, hey?
00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:25.000 About carbon engineering licensing. It’s direct air capture technology.
00:27:25.000 –> 00:27:35.000 Think of it as the Co. 2 vacuum from the air.
00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:37.000 Really what it’s based on is submarine technology.
00:27:37.000 –> 00:27:44.000 So vacuuming the Co. 2 from the air, mineralizing it and putting it back underground in a permanently stable mineral form.
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:49.000 That’s extremely attractive, and part of the solution of where we need to go to actually achieve our Paris goals.
00:27:49.000 –> 00:27:51.000 So those are 2 major trends in the types of assets.
00:27:51.000 –> 00:28:04.000 We see, and then in the markets themselves. We’re seeing very creative, sustainable finance initiatives arise.
00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:15.000 So sustainability link loans, sustainable asset, backed finance in many forms and integration of public private partnerships around.
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:22.000 What can be done, and what should be done to build new infrastructure that is inherently sustainable.
00:28:22.000 –> 00:28:30.000 And when I say sustainable, I mean not just climate reducing, but also sorry climate, emission reducing, but also adaptive.
00:28:30.000 –> 00:28:39.000 So addressing what we are currently feeling as the changes resulting from climate change.
00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:53.000 Nathan, where you have a poll here to help kind of connect with what Lisa is saying, to see if how anybody has already invested or used carbon credits in their business in daily life.
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:56.000 Interesting. Who’s already engaged on this?
00:28:56.000 –> 00:28:59.000 So while that’s going on, I’ll ask you a couple of questions. Lisa.
00:28:59.000 –> 00:29:09.000 You could answer them in any order. So do you see this topic as a as legal, as financial, as societal, or some Venn diagram of.
00:29:09.000 –> 00:29:14.000 And my other question is, what kind of missingceptions do you see?
00:29:14.000 –> 00:29:21.000 Like right now, there’s a trend in mining where everyone’s claiming their tailings is the vacuum for for Co.
00:29:21.000 –> 00:29:38.000 2, you know. I think they’re ignoring all the trees that they have to cut down to do the mining, but you know that that could be one misconception, another one is like people are saying, like, well, Pay me not to chop down my tree, and I had no intention of chopping down, said 3, but you know, if you pay me, we’re gonna save, you know, some CO2, because the tree is is there? Oh, here’s the results.
00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:52.000 It looks like 60% know, have they personally invested about a quarter?
00:29:52.000 –> 00:30:00.000 Yes, and 20% are not sure if they’ve invested in their daily lives or not. Hmm!
00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:02.000 That’s an interesting one. Is that what you see, Lisa?
00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:03.000 Do people you talk to?
00:30:03.000 –> 00:30:14.000 That’s a good answer, that’s a really good answer in terms of not sure, because many people are not aware that they’re currently ining or using carbon credits in your business or daily life.
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:18.000 Do you get gas from enrich? You are investing in carbon credits.
00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:24.000 If you have, do you have an electricity supplier?
00:30:24.000 –> 00:30:30.000 That is powering your home or your business quite often.
00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:35.000 There’s Associated carbon assets included in that.
00:30:35.000 –> 00:30:45.000 So I think many more people are, in fact, investing in a carbon instrument carbon asset, and they don’t know it.
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:52.000 You asked about misconceptions there are many, but the first question, just remind me again.
00:30:52.000 –> 00:30:55.000 Nathan was about.
00:30:55.000 –> 00:30:58.000 If if you see it, then like, I know you’re in the legal area.
00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:05.000 But is this more legal, financial? Just? I’ll truistic, societal.
00:31:05.000 –> 00:31:10.000 Yeah, no. And I’ve done a talk recently on the top 10 Oscar nominations.
00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:22.000 And the answer to that question is really really best crystallized by the film.
00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:28.000 Everything, everywhere, all the time. It is a financial instrument, or can be.
00:31:28.000 –> 00:31:31.000 It can be a commodity. It can be used for related financing.
00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:38.000 It can have huge societal and community benefits.
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:42.000 And there are specific protocols for types of credits that are.
00:31:42.000 –> 00:31:51.000 What we call charismatic carbon, that have that character to it, and it’s much more than just what we used to call consumer.
00:31:51.000 –> 00:32:06.000 Csr, it’s definitely much, much more of a mainstay for financial instrument or asset class that will help us transition to a decoderized world.
00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:20.000 So it does have characteristics of finance. It does have characteristics of this characteristics of society. Best way to think about it is everything everywhere, all the time.
00:32:20.000 –> 00:32:28.000 On your question on misconceptions. I don’t know if any of you have seen the John Oliver segment on carbon offsets.
00:32:28.000 –> 00:32:35.000 It was hilarious. It was very, very funny. It was replete with misconceptions.
00:32:35.000 –> 00:32:37.000 It’s not just paying somebody to avoid polluting.
00:32:37.000 –> 00:32:46.000 There. It isn’t a free for all with Wild Wild West room for improvement, room for increased standardization room for increased monitoring and reporting.
00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:52.000 There was a recent guardian article that was pretty critical of some of the methodologies.
00:32:52.000 –> 00:33:05.000 There was a reply. With scientific experts, saying, You’ve got a lot of this wrong, but some of them is misconceptions.
00:33:05.000 –> 00:33:10.000 We see you’re just paying somebody not to pollute when they weren’t going to pollute, anyway.
00:33:10.000 –> 00:33:16.000 Not true. There’s a concept called additionality that you have to show.
00:33:16.000 –> 00:33:19.000 You have to show that this is not business as usual.
00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:31.000 This is regulatory, additional, so additional to required regulatory requirements or legal requirements, and also financially additional.
00:33:31.000 –> 00:33:35.000 This is not just what would have happened with the regular investment of funds in the normal course of business.
00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:53.000 And this is why renewable energy in areas that are highly adaptive to renewable energies, becoming less additional and less subject of the ability to create a carbon credit.
00:33:53.000 –> 00:33:57.000 Also, people don’t understand that there are 2 types of markets.
00:33:57.000 –> 00:34:00.000 There’s the voluntary carbon market where it’s not required.
00:34:00.000 –> 00:34:11.000 You’re simply undertaking activity in accordance with the protocol or recipe to create a credit because you want to.
00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:16.000 And then many are buying those credits, and then there’s compliance.
00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:27.000 Carbon credits, where, for example, in Canada, we have a regulated offset system in Alberta they have the tier system in many other jurisdictions around the world.
00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:35.000 California. They have their own systems of offsets that can be used as a compliance instrument in a regulated carbon pricing system.
00:34:35.000 –> 00:34:40.000 Whether that’s a cap and trade or a carbon pricing with large system.
00:34:40.000 –> 00:34:44.000 They’re very, they’re very regulated.
00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:50.000 And rigorous about what you can use, and quite often under Article 6 in the Paris Agreement we see a bit of a convergence.
00:34:50.000 –> 00:35:00.000 We see people starting with the mark, the voluntary market, and certain countries allowing endorsement in a compliance, situation.
00:35:00.000 –> 00:35:07.000 Is one more impactful than the other, or the where it seemed like, you’re saying, both are working. 00:35:07.000 –> 00:35:14.000 Both are working, because one without the other you’re missing part of the value chain. 00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:25.000 The voluntary market captures what is yet to be the subject of regulation, the compliance market often is associated with a regulated cap. 00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:37.000 Whether that is, the countries nationally determined contribution under the parasit agreement, or an actual number a cap on emissions like Canada has. 00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:44.000 And that’s very important. Right? If we’re going to meet the Paris agreements, we have to keep our eye on the ball. 00:35:44.000 –> 00:35:53.000 We have to reduce emissions such that we’re at net 0 by twenty-fifty, and the impacts of not doing that are pretty disastrous. 00:35:53.000 –> 00:36:12.000 You can only only need to look to Bloomberg or any other news source to see the difference between a 1.5°C rise, and a 2 degree rise and 3 degrees is quite quite disastrous in terms of people and ecosystems and geopolitics 00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:20.000 and aquatic ecosystems. There’s a host of impacts that are really important to keep in mind. 00:36:20.000 –> 00:36:28.000 Can you describe for us some of the more impactful or innovative projects that either you, or through resilient or even that you’ve heard about? 00:36:28.000 –> 00:36:31.000 You know, type type of projects out there. 00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:43.000 Yeah, let me talk about my first project. One of my first projects a gazillion years ago with the World Bank, where there was a sugar mill in India. 00:36:43.000 –> 00:36:52.000 That was producing in the normal course, and much affluent and sludge coming out of that production. 00:36:52.000 –> 00:37:13.000 And it was causing significant amounts and other issues associated with the degradation of that waste that we’re causing some health problems in the local communities and technology provider came along and said, we can do this by actually capturing the waste which is called the gas and using it to 00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:20.000 actually produce energy to electrify or energize the related plant. 00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:31.000 And you know, we’re gonna sell the emission credits to the World Bank to help us findance that activity with the revenues. 00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:45.000 We will decrease the cost of capital to make the plant be built we’ll also build a hospital, will give a number of the revenue streams back to the local communities, and everybody wins. 00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:50.000 So that was very, very significant. Project on the removal side. 00:37:50.000 –> 00:38:02.000 Last year we were involved. It’s public in the sale of emission removals from Occidental petroleum, and there subsidiary. 00:38:02.000 –> 00:38:17.000 1.5, using that directly, or capture that carbon vacuum to Airbus to help make all of its flights effectively approach net 0. And very significant. 00:38:17.000 –> 00:38:24.000 First of its kind, global and impact and largest globally in the removal space. 00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000 So those are 2 2 types of deals that we’ve seen that have been quite significant. 00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:36.000 And certainly the nature-based climate solutions, deals are very impactful on local communities. 00:38:36.000 –> 00:38:40.000 We were having a little discussion in the Pre, in the preparation stage of this, about a certain mining Esg. 00:38:40.000 –> 00:38:50.000 Activities that really are the gift that keeps on giving to local communities. 00:38:50.000 –> 00:38:54.000 Many of the nature based climate solutions. I’d point you to the work of world world worldwide carbon worldwide at worldwide carbon Wwc. 00:38:54.000 –> 00:39:06.000 Who works with Evelyn, a marketing company to really facilitate those benefits. 00:39:06.000 –> 00:39:08.000 They really have great stuff going on that are additional. They work with the governments. 00:39:08.000 –> 00:39:16.000 So there’s certainty. And it’s actually beneficial to the projects in the area as well. 00:39:16.000 –> 00:39:17.000 Lots of good stuff. 00:39:17.000 –> 00:39:18.000 So, yeah, you all share a lot. 00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:21.000 Nicken. There’s a fair bit of questions here going on like some. 00:39:21.000 –> 00:39:22.000 There’s a fair bit of you know, in the chat right now. 00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:30.000 Ask you about monitoring this. So this is speaking about, you know the implementation you know, we’re transferring. 00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:32.000 And you know the Paris agreement. But a fair bit of people are saying, How do? 00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:37.000 How do we manage this? And the policing of it? 00:39:37.000 –> 00:39:42.000 And you know it’s so global. When Canada has, as you just mentioned, you have one province going, you know, speaking about, you know the way they’re managing it versus another province. 00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:51.000 This is only Canada like, how do we, everyone? There’s a fair bit of questions about policing. 00:39:51.000 –> 00:39:57.000 Yeah, yeah, let me talk. Speak to that in Canada. It’s a bit easier, because it’s a regulated system. 00:39:57.000 –> 00:40:12.000 There are regulatory requirements, but in each and all cases, whether it’s a voluntary system or compliance system, there’s the requirement to have an arms length in independent verifier. 00:40:12.000 –> 00:40:21.000 Actually confirm that what you say is going to be reduced was reduced in a very technical and strong manner, not easy to pass. 00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:22.000 Those verification requirements. So in the first instance, the project itself is validated. 00:40:22.000 –> 00:40:39.000 Yes, if you implement this project, it will result in these mission reductions, and the second part is verification. 00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:41.000 This project did result in these emission reductions. We go on site. We test the equipment. 00:40:41.000 –> 00:41:05.000 We have data, we subject that to all sorts of rigorous data requirements in accordance with the defined standard, the largest one is called Vera, which administers the verified carbon standard and if it’s not verified, it’s not worth the paper, it’s written on we 00:41:05.000 –> 00:41:13.000 do have some instances in the market right now, if it’s not verified, don’t touch it. 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:19.000 That’s your integrity, integrity, voice speaking. We also have a couple of oversight initiatives. 00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:30.000 The Carney Commission the task force for scaling the voluntary carbon market, which is now called the Integrity Commission for the voluntary carbon market or IC. 00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:50.000 Vcm. Is looking at the supply side and trying to administer a series of core carbon principles that if it meets those core carbon principles, the supply will get a tag, and then on the demand side, I sit on the expert advisory group of the voluntary carbon 00:41:50.000 –> 00:41:58.000 market initiative which is looking at what claims you can make with the best supply. 00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:05.000 And so this is ongoing, and then last, but not least, there’s a role for the public and oversight. 00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:15.000 Many of these are publicly posted, or have to be, as part of the Creation initiative, and there are competitive forces who, wanna, you know, give it a hard time. 00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:19.000 Give it a go if it’s not the highest and best. 00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:27.000 And so we see that public consultation being used actively so, lots of mechanisms now for oversight. 00:42:27.000 –> 00:42:35.000 Of course, the best is regulation, but the standardization of the voluntary market has come a long, long way and is coming further as well. 00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:38.000 Oh, I see a question just pop up that I wanna answer. Can I go at it? 00:42:38.000 –> 00:42:40.000 Yeah, it could go for it. 00:42:40.000 –> 00:42:42.000 You’re allowed. 00:42:42.000 –> 00:42:50.000 The question was it was the Kyoto mechanism effective and the Kyoto mechanism was actually 3 mechanisms. 00:42:50.000 –> 00:43:10.000 There was the Cdm. The clean development mechanism which was really effective at bringing awareness to carbon pricing and facilitating emission reductions in countries that didn’t have a cap under the Kyoto protocol and that’s really how we got to carbon 00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:15.000 pricing in China, if they had not been active participants in the Cdm. 00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000 The concept of China implementing a market mechanism would have not happened. 00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:31.000 It just simply wouldn’t have happened. Then there was the joint implementation mechanism which was in developing countries that had been economic since transition predominantly. 00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:36.000 And there are arguments as to why that was or was not effective. 00:43:36.000 –> 00:43:47.000 Certainly in terms of reaching that global scenario where everyone is covered by a cap that didn’t happen until Paris and that’s where we need to go. 00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:51.000 That’s where we went. But Kyoto was a good start. 00:43:51.000 –> 00:43:59.000 Some of the protocols were very effective. Paris is where we need to go. 00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:03.000 Well, we should send them up to whoever asked that question, and I share it like. 00:44:03.000 –> 00:44:09.000 So Lisa Lisa, there’s some words that you know we hear in in the public like offsetting in setting leakage, additionality. What what? 00:44:09.000 –> 00:44:16.000 Should the audience know like, what do these mean? What you know? 00:44:16.000 –> 00:44:19.000 What do they do? 00:44:19.000 –> 00:44:26.000 Yeah. So we touched upon additionality that it has to be additional to business as usual, you can’t just do the same thing. 00:44:26.000 –> 00:44:31.000 You’ve always done, or the same thing that you’re financially incentive to do and get a carbon credit. 00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:43.000 It does have to be additional to business as usual, additional to regulatory requirements, and it has to have a real associated benefit. 00:44:43.000 –> 00:44:48.000 Leakage is part of how you determine whether or not there’s that benefit. 00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:53.000 Are you simply moving production from one side of a border to another? 00:44:53.000 –> 00:45:00.000 Side of the border are the emissions just changing jurisdiction with the same atmosphere impact. 00:45:00.000 –> 00:45:03.000 So that’s cool. So that’s one of the criteria that you have to look at. 00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:07.000 What is the leakage? Dynamic when you are creating a credit? 00:45:07.000 –> 00:45:14.000 And if there is leakage significantly, kids, you cannot create that credit. 00:45:14.000 –> 00:45:15.000 Offsetting is often now seen to be determined to be compliance, mitigation contributing to compliance, mitigation. 00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:29.000 It’s when you use it, a specific emission reduction that’s beyond your scope of activity. That’s beyond your scope of activity. 00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:34.000 You’re all probably familiar with scope one and scope 2 and scope 3 emissions. 00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:38.000 Your direct, your indirect energy, and your supply chain emissions. 00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:48.000 1, 2, 3. When you go beyond that, and you purchase somebody else’s emission reductions to use against your and a short reductions. 00:45:48.000 –> 00:45:49.000 And sometimes that’s part of a compliance system. 00:45:49.000 –> 00:46:01.000 So Californian, Quebec and Alberta absolutely allow, regulated offsets to be used as compliance and instruments in their systems. 00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:15.000 They have recipes or protocols, or methodologies, for how you do that, and other times they’re voluntarily created in setting is when you look into your supply chain, and you actually help someone in your supply chain. 00:46:15.000 –> 00:46:21.000 Reduce those emissions, and you use them in your overall calculation of your often scope. 00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:43.000 3 emissions. So, for example, airlines right now are trying to incent their customers to fly, using sustainable aviation fuel, and they do that by facilitating these programs where the customers actually purchase higher price ticket that goes towards the 00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:47.000 purchasing of sustainable aviation fuel, so the airline takes a scope, one emission production that customer takes a scope, 3. Emission reduction. 00:46:47.000 –> 00:47:04.000 That’s a form of in setting, and that’s to enable the supply of sustainable aviation fuel to in a market-based manner. 00:47:04.000 –> 00:47:13.000 Increase, we’re really low on the amount of sustainable aviation fuel in setting, and that’s to enable the supply of sustainable aviation fuel to in a market based manner increase. 00:47:13.000 –> 00:47:25.000 We’re really low on the amount of sustainable aviation fuel that we need to actually get to a net 0 criteria that’s required by the international Civil aviation organization which has its own form of regulated but quasi voluntary emission reduction scheme right now, we’re 00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:30.000 in the preliminary phase, we’ll switch from 2025 to the mandatory phase. 00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:34.000 Someone just messaged me privately with their home email at or home address for the Mug. 00:47:34.000 –> 00:47:35.000 I have no idea if they actually ask the question or not, I’ll rely on Cheryl. 00:47:35.000 –> 00:47:37.000 So if I take a plane and promise the plant some mango trees in Cuba. 00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:45.000 Is that exactly. 00:47:45.000 –> 00:47:47.000 Not really, unless you go through a protocol and your mango plantation in Cuba meets all the requests of one of the standards. 00:47:47.000 –> 00:48:12.000 Methodologies, and if the mango trees were being built, I could say mangrove on a coastal area that is facilitating complete absorption of the carbon that would otherwise be released. 00:48:12.000 –> 00:48:20.000 When you destroy those marsh and mangrove areas that’s called blue carbon and that’s a very important form of removal. 00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:37.000 It’s gonna take you about 2 years to actually develop that project, go through all the requirements to produce your project, design document, or Pdd, I was telling the gang earlier, you know, in carbon, we don’t really speak English. 00:48:37.000 –> 00:48:43.000 We only Tlas, or 4 Flas, 3 letter acronyms, or 4 letter acronyms. 00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:44.000 So I’m gonna try and define them. But if you catch me out, please call me out. 00:48:44.000 –> 00:49:11.000 So in that regard, it is gonna take you about 2 years to get through creating your project design document, having your project validated, getting it registered with the voluntary carbon system and a verified carbon system and having it verified by an arm’s length independent qualified 00:49:11.000 –> 00:49:15.000 verifier before you have your carbon credit in hand. 00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:22.000 So, Nathan, if you want to go and undertake that in relation to your next slide and next slide, have at it. 00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:25.000 Shouldn’t an la have 4 words in it? Cheryl. 00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:26.000 There are! 00:49:26.000 –> 00:49:30.000 You looked at Cheryl. You wanted to. You said there was somebody from Cooper had a question. 00:49:30.000 –> 00:49:31.000 You wanted to. 00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:33.000 Yeah, Cooper Quinn’s actually got some great questions. 00:49:33.000 –> 00:49:36.000 I think there’s 2 things that we do have, and I don’t like to make sure we get to our next question like, if there’s a company, how do you start this? 00:49:36.000 –> 00:49:45.000 And so let’s get Cooper in, and and the neat thing can ask the next question. After Cooper. 00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:52.000 If you don’t mind either. Just just voice over Video if you want. And you can ask Lisa. 00:49:52.000 –> 00:49:55.000 So much pressure. And yeah, I was. I was with Nathan. There. 00:49:55.000 –> 00:49:56.000 I was trying to wrap my head around the the fla, being a tla, and I was confusing that. 00:49:56.000 –> 00:50:03.000 But no thanks so much, Lisa, you know I just kind of curious how you see kind of the Cdr. 00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:09.000 And the offset markets evolving, you know. 00:50:09.000 –> 00:50:12.000 Certainly you mentioned Vera earlier. Obviously, I think the people in the space kind of saw the some of the pushback on the nature based solutions. 00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:20.000 We’re seeing a bit more of that, and maybe an increasing focus on durability. 00:50:20.000 –> 00:50:24.000 But then you’ve got the high cost of technology based solutions and stuff. 00:50:24.000 –> 00:50:38.000 So how you kind of see the compliance market shifting and adapting to account for some of that. And you know you’re seeing a little bit of that in the voluntary markets, maybe with pros changes to kind of their d just curious kinda like it seems like 00:50:38.000 –> 00:50:39.000 we’re seeing a bit of a shift here, and curious to see what what you think. 00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:42.000 If that makes any sense. 00:50:42.000 –> 00:50:43.000 Yeah, we don’t see rapid fall off in the market in any way, shape or form. 00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:51.000 It’s great question, Cooper, in relation to the actual forward market curve. 00:50:51.000 –> 00:50:55.000 There are a number of agencies out there, I would say. 00:50:55.000 –> 00:51:01.000 Clear blue is. One. Opus is another one that actually publish forward market curves for price. 00:51:01.000 –> 00:51:16.000 Of course, but in relation to the voluntary market we see enhanced stringency around the criteria coming forward we see convergence with in particular countries, compliance standards. 00:51:16.000 –> 00:51:35.000 So we saw this with Indonesia, where they had a few months more moratorium on any voluntary credits coming outside of their jurisdiction, they were very adamant, and saying, You know, nothing goes out until we figure out what we’re doing with our new our newest discovered natural resource 00:51:35.000 –> 00:51:47.000 and that natural resources, carbon. And you’re seeing many countries kind of discover that we’re gonna treat this just like we do other extractive resources. 00:51:47.000 –> 00:51:55.000 We have to figure out what the concession scheme is, what the royalty scheme is, how this works for our country. 00:51:55.000 –> 00:52:00.000 So with that convergence, we see some really interesting increases in certainty. 00:52:00.000 –> 00:52:05.000 In the market we see some not so great examples of activity. 00:52:05.000 –> 00:52:09.000 There’s been weeded out of the market on the compliance side. 00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:15.000 We track through the international Emissions Trading Association, full disclosure. 00:52:15.000 –> 00:52:24.000 I am currently the active chair of that global organization. We track the number of countries that are implementing carbon pricing schemes. 00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:32.000 And that is increasing at an exponential rate. And we don’t see that decreasing so we don’t see it as a straight line increase in the curve. 00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:38.000 There’s gonna be bumps along the way, but we do with a number of these initiatives. 00:52:38.000 –> 00:52:52.000 See a general trend toward very significant increase in the marketplace. And if you look at the last 2 years, I think the rate of change is fairly predictive of what we’re expecting over the next 10 years. 00:52:52.000 –> 00:52:56.000 Start, then try to expect perfection out of the gate. 00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:59.000 Not gonna happen right? We’re just gonna run another poll. 00:52:59.000 –> 00:53:00.000 Nathan to see how people are feeling about this. 00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000 And. 00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:08.000 Now, since they’ve gotten a little bit more information from Lisa. 00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:12.000 And carbon credits, we used to mitigate climate change. 00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:15.000 So basically, you get a temperament of the room. 00:53:15.000 –> 00:53:19.000 That’s great. I have a spoiler on this one. 00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:20.000 So! 00:53:20.000 –> 00:53:22.000 Well, we’re looking at. 00:53:22.000 –> 00:53:26.000 Yeah, but you know, point, that’s really good in terms of don’t expect perfection out of the gate. 00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:30.000 Perfectionist the enemy. It’s good right now. 00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:51.000 This 7 year window. If you follow the science, if you are a student of the intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which is 1,400 independent scientists from around the world that have received a Nobel Prize for their work in this area we don’t have time to 00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:59.000 waste, so I’d rather be 98% sure on the data and requirements and get that activity undertaken. 00:53:59.000 –> 00:54:12.000 Now before 2030, instead of having to take very painful action and costly action from 2030 to 2050. 00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:13.000 So! 00:54:13.000 –> 00:54:18.000 So it seemed like the lion’s share was agree, or strongly agree. 00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:22.000 But there was a well, 38% disagrees. 00:54:22.000 –> 00:54:27.000 So how do we, or how do you mitigate that? 00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000 Review it! 00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:32.000 I think education is a huge part of that for sure. And I’m gonna point you to the University of Maryland. 00:54:32.000 –> 00:54:46.000 Peer-reviewed study. That shows that with carbon credits, carbon pricing in the system, you can either do 250 billion more. 00:54:46.000 –> 00:54:52.000 Emission reductions per year, or save a trillion dollars in the cost of compliance compared to commit and control. 00:54:52.000 –> 00:54:58.000 And that’s what it’s about. It’s more faster and cheaper. 00:54:58.000 –> 00:55:01.000 That’s the role of the carbon credit. And really, now is the time. 00:55:01.000 –> 00:55:12.000 As as I say, this 7 year period is really really important and critical minerals are a critical point of that trajectory. 00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:21.000 So I’m looking forward to seeing what mining operations around the world will do to utilize carbon as an asset class. 00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000 Many, are. 00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:28.000 Bobby was asking if there’s a link for the study. 00:55:28.000 –> 00:55:29.000 Yeah. 00:55:29.000 –> 00:55:32.000 If if you can get it to us after we’re if you have it, we can add it to the chat, or make sure people have an opportunity to see it. 00:55:32.000 –> 00:55:33.000 Yeah, also. 00:55:33.000 –> 00:55:44.000 2 more questions for me. You can answer them, anyway. You’d like, so what’s your personal opinion about the importance of collaboration and creating partnerships and carbon credit space? 00:55:44.000 –> 00:55:53.000 And the second one. If people want to get involved in in the carbon finance field and want to make a positive impact, how would they go about doing that? 00:55:53.000 –> 00:55:57.000 Yeah, the first of all on collaboration you’ve hit the nail on the head. 00:55:57.000 –> 00:56:10.000 The best. What we call most charismatic carbon crits have government involvement in forms in the form of agreement or benefit, sharing. 00:56:10.000 –> 00:56:27.000 They have local, community and stakeholder involvement, and they have an ongoing benefit to the area and the community, and that transparency that happens through a broader community as well is a key part of the narrative. 00:56:27.000 –> 00:56:37.000 The short answer is, collaboration is critical. The more you do, the more car charismatic your carbon will be, the more charismatic you, carbon is, the higher price you get for it. 00:56:37.000 –> 00:56:43.000 It’s really that simple. 00:56:43.000 –> 00:56:44.000 Is that a thing? A Ccc. The Carriersmatic carbon credit? 00:56:44.000 –> 00:56:47.000 Could we use it now? 00:56:47.000 –> 00:57:01.000 Well, some of the brokers definitely use it. So charismatic carbon, and you’ll see that this is moved from a developer model where you have these small businesses who are active in developing credits. 00:57:01.000 –> 00:57:11.000 If you want to get involved, are great to talk with to a number of those developers growing to the size where they’re being acquired by banks and other institutional providers. 00:57:11.000 –> 00:57:15.000 So you can see on the news the recent acquisition of Radical by Bank of Montreal. 00:57:15.000 –> 00:57:22.000 So Bemo Radical is a very significant developer. 00:57:22.000 –> 00:57:30.000 Similarly blue source was acquired by private equity. Group Tpg, they’re now called a new, very significant developer. 00:57:30.000 –> 00:57:37.000 These are the folks that you want to go to, and you say, listen, I’ve got it undertake some infrastructure change, or I’m developing a mind. 00:57:37.000 –> 00:57:39.000 I want to do it in a sustainable way. 00:57:39.000 –> 00:57:50.000 How can I do that? To actually harness the carbon related value in the area to help me do and undertake this project in the most sustainable way? 00:57:50.000 –> 00:58:11.000 And if I do, so, am I eligible for favorable finance in the form of sustainability, like loans or a bond, or some other form of sustainable finance that is available to me as a function of that better than a norm that additional production benefit that 00:58:11.000 –> 00:58:15.000 I’ve created from developing in this way. 00:58:15.000 –> 00:58:17.000 I see he has his hand up very polite. 00:58:17.000 –> 00:58:25.000 Yeah, there’s an interesting question on the Amazon has come out with a new carbon credit label they call. 00:58:25.000 –> 00:58:27.000 I presume, that you get your carbon credit delivered to your doorstep. 00:58:27.000 –> 00:58:37.000 But what is your view of the involvement of companies like Amazon in this space? 00:58:37.000 –> 00:58:44.000 Yeah, Amazon and Bezos Earth Fund are taking a leadership role in the space. 00:58:44.000 –> 00:59:01.000 Very significant leadership role. And what are the most talented people in the carbon market who is now working for Bezos Earth Fund is Kelly Czar. She was one of the lead negotiators on Article 6 of the Paris Agreement and when we talk about Integrity and 00:59:01.000 –> 00:59:10.000 quality, and the best credits possible, I would hold up a picture of Kelly next to that, so I’m quite thrilled. 00:59:10.000 –> 00:59:19.000 That basis is in and very actively developing differentiated carbon offerings that’ve got something involved. 00:59:19.000 –> 00:59:24.000 They’ve got involvement in the recent John Kerry announced. 00:59:24.000 –> 00:59:32.000 Energy, transition, accelerator, Rockefeller is also involved in that they’ve gotten involvement and ocean related carbon. 00:59:32.000 –> 00:59:33.000 They’ve got significant involvement in all forms of nature, based climate solutions and driving integrity. 00:59:33.000 –> 00:59:49.000 There, and they’ve been very involved in the Saba sustainable Aviation Buyers Association, carbon credit requirements and developing demand. There. 00:59:49.000 –> 00:59:55.000 So I’m generally a fan of what’s going on through base of earth. 00:59:55.000 –> 00:59:58.000 So, Lisa, I was asking you about, you know. 00:59:58.000 –> 01:00:01.000 How do people get involved with but Cheryl just asked me to. 01:00:01.000 –> 01:00:03.000 What would corporations do if they want to get started along the path of carbon credits? 01:00:03.000 –> 01:00:09.000 Any suggestions there. 01:00:09.000 –> 01:00:18.000 Yeah, I would suggest contacting one of the developers are looking at your operations in relation to a number of the available methodologies and your gonna get the acronym wrong. 01:00:18.000 –> 01:00:25.000 Now I, Ccm, is that right? Has a number of activities on it. 01:00:25.000 –> 01:00:30.000 Rio Tinto has been a leader in that. 01:00:30.000 –> 01:00:42.000 And so looking at what your Global Industry Association has and what information they have on accessing the carbon markets. 01:00:42.000 –> 01:00:54.000 Voluntarily, also, when you’re working on concessions or dealing with related royalties and land rights, mining rights with certain governments, this should be a term. 01:00:54.000 –> 01:01:00.000 This should definitely be ahead of term, that you’re actively negotiating and considering with those governments, there’s a lot of value there, both for them and for you. 01:01:00.000 –> 01:01:12.000 So don’t just let it dissipate without even considering it in terms of individuals. 01:01:12.000 –> 01:01:22.000 There are a number of things you can look at, either, probably through your utility or through other organizations that are acceptable to individuals. 01:01:22.000 –> 01:01:26.000 As somebody mentioned pure earth, they’re predominantly removals. 01:01:26.000 –> 01:01:29.000 It was Cooper mentioned, purely earth predominantly. 01:01:29.000 –> 01:01:39.000 Removals focused, we as a law firm, are looking at office setting number of our emissions, which are predominantly scope 3. 01:01:39.000 –> 01:01:43.000 Through a removals offering, and they’re accessible to people. 01:01:43.000 –> 01:01:49.000 Virgin also has a people accessible offering. There are a number that have portfolios of carbon credits. 01:01:49.000 –> 01:01:55.000 If you want to look at your own emissions, profile and Microsoft has a Ghg. 01:01:55.000 –> 01:02:03.000 Emissions. Calculator, so if you wanna start with the knowledge of just how bad am I from an emitter perspective as a law firm, we were pretty good on our direct scope. 01:02:03.000 –> 01:02:10.000 One, and scope 2 emissions. It’s terrible on screen. 01:02:10.000 –> 01:02:17.000 3 missions, relatively because how often I spend it on how much time I spend on a plane. 01:02:17.000 –> 01:02:30.000 So looking at that and building that into your decarbonization strategy it’s a big deal and there were certain things that we did that were really straightforward. 01:02:30.000 –> 01:02:31.000 Hmm! 01:02:31.000 –> 01:02:36.000 We moved to a paperless paper consumption, was one of the biggest forms of emissions, and we’re all on ipads. 01:02:36.000 –> 01:02:44.000 Where all our notes are taken on ipads. Now, and it was kind of a win-win solution. 01:02:44.000 –> 01:02:50.000 It made for much easier filing requirements and recording of data for us. 01:02:50.000 –> 01:02:57.000 And really decreased. Our related paper costs. I see that’s what I see. 01:02:57.000 –> 01:02:58.000 Thanks. 01:02:58.000 –> 01:03:14.000 Yeah, can I ask the dreaded question? You know, you see, on the people flying around the gates the private, the project jets, you know, and I think this kind of feeds into the pieces where people say, is this really gonna make a change are we just gonna shift, greenwashing? 01:03:14.000 –> 01:03:17.000 Let’s just call it what it is. Right? So we have, you know, Gates saying I’m saving here, but I’m flying everywhere. 01:03:17.000 –> 01:03:25.000 To stay there. So I just I find it’s it’s conflicting and how to absorb this. 01:03:25.000 –> 01:03:33.000 And then then we have, you know, the beginning kind of going back to this piece where we said, we don’t even know if we’re helping carbon credits. 01:03:33.000 –> 01:03:36.000 So is there really just a lack of media attention on this advertising, like something? 01:03:36.000 –> 01:03:40.000 I’m in Ontario, the Opg. Like, why do I like? 01:03:40.000 –> 01:03:59.000 I had no idea this was happening. So I’m kind of looking at the beginning of this question of our conversation here why don’t I know and why don’t I really understand the intricacies, the I guess more scope 3 items that happens with people trying to make change but 01:03:59.000 –> 01:04:02.000 they’re taking jets to go make that change. So. 01:04:02.000 –> 01:04:06.000 We’ll share Cheryl, shouldn’t we have checked with our speaker if she drives? 01:04:06.000 –> 01:04:09.000 If she has a private check. 01:04:09.000 –> 01:04:10.000 Yeah. 01:04:10.000 –> 01:04:12.000 Yeah. Nope, no private chat or 2 electric cars. 01:04:12.000 –> 01:04:16.000 So I but you know what not. Easy. 01:04:16.000 –> 01:04:17.000 No! 01:04:17.000 –> 01:04:23.000 I’m still heated by we’re in the process of converting our our house to ground source heat pump. 01:04:23.000 –> 01:04:28.000 It’s. A it’s a process, and you know you have to do your homework in those. 01:04:28.000 –> 01:04:33.000 Those examples are not readily available. Give you a little war story. 01:04:33.000 –> 01:04:40.000 December sixteenth, I got back from 2 weeks of an arbitration on the fundamental property nature of carbon Credits in Washington, DC. 01:04:40.000 –> 01:04:48.000 And our hot water tee heater died, and Cheryl, to your point. 01:04:48.000 –> 01:04:52.000 Why don’t I don’t. I’m in the energy and the carbon business. 01:04:52.000 –> 01:04:53.000 Hmm! 01:04:53.000 –> 01:05:00.000 We moved 3 years ago. I didn’t realize. Okay. We rented our hot water tank. 01:05:00.000 –> 01:05:01.000 So the reality is, you’re busy. You’re managing a bunch of stuff, and you just pay your bill. 01:05:01.000 –> 01:05:07.000 You don’t look at it very carefully, and and that’s a problem right? 01:05:07.000 –> 01:05:08.000 Sure! 01:05:08.000 –> 01:05:22.000 Awareness and transparency is a problem, and the big lesson here was I actually had to fight with both the utility and the alternate Hvac Provider to get a tank less low emission. Hot water solution. 01:05:22.000 –> 01:05:26.000 They’re like. No, you don’t want that. It’s going to take you 10 weeks. 01:05:26.000 –> 01:05:30.000 No, I really 10 days it’s no, I really do want it. 01:05:30.000 –> 01:05:35.000 Well, no, no, just put in a hot hot water tank, you know you don’t understand. 01:05:35.000 –> 01:05:39.000 I want it’s gonna cost you 10 times the amount. 01:05:39.000 –> 01:05:42.000 I won’t it, you know, and I literally had to fight. 01:05:42.000 –> 01:05:43.000 We waited 10 days with intermittent hot water. 01:05:43.000 –> 01:05:50.000 Barely any to get that tankless hot water tank in, and that’s you know. 01:05:50.000 –> 01:06:00.000 That’s in Toronto where it’s accessible and available in terms of why, don’t you know part of the reason is disclosure. 01:06:00.000 –> 01:06:05.000 And this year, when you ask me about trends, I should have talked about this Nathan this year. 01:06:05.000 –> 01:06:13.000 There’s been a huge burgeoning of related disclosure requirements pertaining to climate change how you’re mitigating it, and what you’re using to mitigate it. 01:06:13.000 –> 01:06:22.000 And that started historically with the task force for climate related financial disclosure. 01:06:22.000 –> 01:06:29.000 You ready for another. This is A, T. C, F, d. 01:06:29.000 –> 01:06:30.000 And it’s based on the greenhouse gas protocol. 01:06:30.000 –> 01:06:39.000 Published by Wri and Wwf together, and then there have been a number of regulated disclosure requirements. 01:06:39.000 –> 01:06:45.000 You saw the Canadian Securities administrators come out with 5011107, mandating. 01:06:45.000 –> 01:06:46.000 What climate related disclosure looks like in draft form immediately after you saw the Us. 01:06:46.000 –> 01:06:58.000 Ec come out with their 432 page disclosure document just not yet finalized. 01:06:58.000 –> 01:07:01.000 And then you saw the Csa. Same we’re gonna for date. 01:07:01.000 –> 01:07:04.000 We’re gonna harmonize. So we create consistency in the market. 01:07:04.000 –> 01:07:05.000 And then you saw the formation of the international Sustainability Standards Board. 01:07:05.000 –> 01:07:22.000 Is Sb, get located co-located in Montreal and in Frankfurt, pushing for harmonized global standards based on Ifrs. 01:07:22.000 –> 01:07:26.000 And and so they’ve come out with a couple of discussion documents as well. 01:07:26.000 –> 01:07:45.000 So part of the reason why you don’t know is that there haven’t been enough disclosures, and secondly, the increasingly mandatory nature of those disclosures also provides an opportunity for those who are doing the best have the best decarbonization strategies and are telling people 01:07:45.000 –> 01:07:52.000 precisely what they’re doing and greenwashing claims are also the new flavor of the month. 01:07:52.000 –> 01:08:04.000 I’m gonna say, flavor of the year for environmental Ngos, who are calling out companies who are not doing what they’re saying, they’re doing and who are overreaching on claims. 01:08:04.000 –> 01:08:09.000 And those take really 2 forms. One is the form of a consumer protection, type, complaint, or advertising standards. 01:08:09.000 –> 01:08:11.000 Council type complaint, and the other takes the form of a regulated securities. 01:08:11.000 –> 01:08:16.000 Type complaint, and we’ve seen many, many, many actions that are greenwashing complaints. 01:08:16.000 –> 01:08:24.000 This year, and we’ve done a paper with the Global Risk Institute. 01:08:24.000 –> 01:08:44.000 Janice. Sarah is the lead author. I’m the second author on that paper, looking at all of those complaints, and how they apply to your fiduciary duties, how they apply to management requirements, and how they may be characterized at law Hi brett i’d recommend you 01:08:44.000 –> 01:08:45.000 download that paper, and we’ll send that to you as well. 01:08:45.000 –> 01:08:50.000 Cheryl, just you’ll remind me what I promised to send. 01:08:50.000 –> 01:08:51.000 I know this one. Yeah. 01:08:51.000 –> 01:08:52.000 Yeah, no problem. That is great, because I’m looking at some of the audience members. 01:08:52.000 –> 01:09:09.000 And you know we we’re all, you know, in a network and talk to each other, and several of them had mentioned they said you were coming on, and Nathan and John and I were talking about it and saying, You know, having this information is great but absolutely right. Back. 01:09:09.000 –> 01:09:12.000 To your water tank situation. If you want to go more green if you want to. 01:09:12.000 –> 01:09:16.000 You know, make your facilities more, you know, in line with, you know, reducing your carbon footprint. 01:09:16.000 –> 01:09:29.000 We just really start. Who do you call? And we’re all we have all our traditional lines that we call. 01:09:29.000 –> 01:09:33.000 And we just get the same machines, the same old, you know. 01:09:33.000 –> 01:09:36.000 So we do find it’s a challenge to get out of that routine of just calling another rented, you know. 01:09:36.000 –> 01:09:46.000 Tank, or whatever whatever it is. It’s also funding the people who have gone through this process and understand what to do. 01:09:46.000 –> 01:09:47.000 For sure! 01:09:47.000 –> 01:09:50.000 Yeah, at a corporate level in terms of the consulting side. 01:09:50.000 –> 01:10:00.000 I would. There’s the class of developers, so that would be Anu and be more radical would be the 2 big ones in the Canadian marketplace. 01:10:00.000 –> 01:10:03.000 There are many others for forestry on the consultancy side. 01:10:03.000 –> 01:10:07.000 There was something recently published. We see Deloitte quite often. 01:10:07.000 –> 01:10:20.000 We see Bcg. And Mckenzie are playing a more active role. But all of the Big 4 have some semblance of decarbonization strategy, so you can often get that from your auditor. 01:10:20.000 –> 01:10:26.000 Hey! We’re a couple of comments from Emma and Jim about greenwashing, so we’ll take a look at later. Lisa. 01:10:26.000 –> 01:10:27.000 By the way, I was gonna give a bottle of Cuban ROM to anyone who could stump you, but I think I’m safe. 01:10:27.000 –> 01:10:34.000 No one’s gonna be able to do that in the last few minutes. 01:10:34.000 –> 01:10:43.000 Here. I had a question about targets or dates, like almost every company, has a 2030 target and a twenty-fifty car. 01:10:43.000 –> 01:10:54.000 That target, and then they’ll say, you know, for 2050 we have no idea the technology is not invented yet, but hopefully, you know, it will be so. 01:10:54.000 –> 01:11:00.000 They can get two-thirds of the way, you know, before that, knowing what they know, and then, you know, 2050, maybe, is more aspirational. 01:11:00.000 –> 01:11:03.000 Do you have a comment about that? 01:11:03.000 –> 01:11:24.000 Yeah, the best companies actually have a line of sight on 2050, and then they have interim targets for twenty-thirty with a clear knowledge of how you’re getting there for 2830, 2035, 2040 2045, and then 12, for example, our 01:11:24.000 –> 01:11:25.000 iterative on those plans, and I think that’s key. 01:11:25.000 –> 01:11:33.000 This is back to your point, Cheryl, and not letting perfection be the enemy of the good you wanna update those plans. 01:11:33.000 –> 01:11:42.000 5 years ago, carbon removals through negative emissions, technologies and direct air capture we’re not an active part of the commercial world. 01:11:42.000 –> 01:11:50.000 2025, we will have completion. Commercial operation, date on one of the world’s first plant. 01:11:50.000 –> 01:11:57.000 So you want to continually renew that. And that’s important for your stakeholders and your disclosures as well. 01:11:57.000 –> 01:12:10.000 Scientific method, as you all know, probably coming from science backgrounds, is based on a hypothesis and trying to negate a hypothesis and ask the science changes. 01:12:10.000 –> 01:12:16.000 You want to update your related plans, you want to make sure they’re accurate line of sight. 01:12:16.000 –> 01:12:17.000 Targets are there, the related activities in the suite of your sector. 01:12:17.000 –> 01:12:30.000 Your industry there, and often a pressure relief valve in the form of removals offsets, or insets, and really insets have many, many benefits. 01:12:30.000 –> 01:12:47.000 They make your existing supply chain stickier, and in a world where supply chains are challenged by inflation, by trade, protectionism, by geopolitics, making your supply chain stick. 01:12:47.000 –> 01:12:55.000 Here is very helpful. So there’s a lot a lot to think about, and what we’ve seen regularly. 01:12:55.000 –> 01:12:59.000 Nathan is. So people go out with. 01:12:59.000 –> 01:13:08.000 Target from that strategy, and once it gets limited, there’s over compliance. 01:13:08.000 –> 01:13:14.000 Once people understand the power of the market. There’s, in fact, over compliance. 01:13:14.000 –> 01:13:21.000 So that’s pretty interesting for me. That shows just how powerful the instrument is. 01:13:21.000 –> 01:13:27.000 There’s another pool there. I like this one. 01:13:27.000 –> 01:13:31.000 I guess it depends on your food choice, but if your car goes through a type of food, but would they be so? 01:13:31.000 –> 01:13:35.000 Let’s see, Lisa, how much you’ve suede the group we do have. 01:13:35.000 –> 01:13:50.000 You know, we saw earlier this, you know, some people not necessarily believing in it right now, or just understanding but I think you’ve made that you’ve convinced me on the idea that there has to be a fair bit of transparency. 01:13:50.000 –> 01:14:00.000 And I didn’t really, actually understand just how much regulation was going into this and the oversight going on there’s still questions like, How do you how do you ensure this? 01:14:00.000 –> 01:14:09.000 How do you make sure everybody’s following along? There’s still tons of questions in the in the chat here, but you’ve definitely convinced me more. Here. 01:14:09.000 –> 01:14:10.000 Yeah, and I should regulated bye? 01:14:10.000 –> 01:14:15.000 Well, the in the no. Go ahead, at least go ahead. 01:14:15.000 –> 01:14:27.000 I should mention that all of the regulated systems, particularly in Canada, have an audit function, and the Government does periodically and randomly audit the offsets that are created. 01:14:27.000 –> 01:14:35.000 If they’re in a compliance system. Similarly, some of the voluntary standards have the ability to audit and do. 01:14:35.000 –> 01:14:43.000 I would point to in particular the gold standard, which is really quite good in that regard. 01:14:43.000 –> 01:14:47.000 I’m gonna give you one more question, and then you can leave us with anything you’d like. 01:14:47.000 –> 01:14:54.000 So if I was able to give you the magic one, what would you like to change in this area? 01:14:54.000 –> 01:15:18.000 Hmm? Oh, tough question, tough question. I think if you were to give me the magic wand I would have a global compliance system that played by the exact same rules for what a carbon credit is, how it’s created, how it can be used. 01:15:18.000 –> 01:15:29.000 And really facilitated trans boundary transactions to hit those targets faster. 01:15:29.000 –> 01:15:39.000 Right now we have a fairly fragmented system, with many rules, small differences, and we need some standardization to reach that. 01:15:39.000 –> 01:15:47.000 I take out the fraudsters as well. 01:15:47.000 –> 01:15:48.000 Awesome. 01:15:48.000 –> 01:15:53.000 There are definitely some prosters in the market that you have to be careful for, and we come across and we see contracts come across our desk where we just kinda. 01:15:53.000 –> 01:15:54.000 Oh, boy! 01:15:54.000 –> 01:15:57.000 As I say, don’t worth the paper it’s written on, you know. 01:15:57.000 –> 01:16:00.000 There’s no verification. That standard doesn’t exist, not worth the paper it’s written on. 01:16:00.000 –> 01:16:08.000 So yeah, I wouldn’t. I would be an overseer that wave the magic Wand. 01:16:08.000 –> 01:16:16.000 And really had transparent, clear, and certain standards that were applied uniformly in a very big way. 01:16:16.000 –> 01:16:19.000 We don’t have enough of it going on right now. 01:16:19.000 –> 01:16:22.000 I almost stumped you. I almost won my own bottle of rum. 01:16:22.000 –> 01:16:23.000 No! 01:16:23.000 –> 01:16:31.000 There was one good question that came in. If it’s a short one, it it was from Ernie about with small companies. 01:16:31.000 –> 01:16:40.000 So react the same way as big companies for Stage 3 emissions? Or what can small companies do? 01:16:40.000 –> 01:16:43.000 Small companies would really benefit from standardized approaches to measuring, monitoring, and reporting on the scope 3 emissions. 01:16:43.000 –> 01:16:55.000 And if you look at the Canadian securities, administrators approach. 01:16:55.000 –> 01:17:03.000 There was a staggering between big and small in terms of what was required, and the more we can get make the job easier. 01:17:03.000 –> 01:17:08.000 I’m a small company. So I I certainly relate to the administrative burden. 01:17:08.000 –> 01:17:11.000 The more we can make that job easier. By saying, Here’s your template. 01:17:11.000 –> 01:17:12.000 Here’s what you do. Here’s an example of how it’s done. 01:17:12.000 –> 01:17:20.000 Go! Do it. That would be fantastic, or do it by class. 01:17:20.000 –> 01:17:32.000 Small companies from this. Here’s your default data, unless you tell us you’re much better than the default, or worse than the default. 01:17:32.000 –> 01:17:34.000 So before. I thank a few people. Lisa’s. 01:17:34.000 –> 01:17:37.000 There any words you want to leave us with anything? I didn’t ask about that. 01:17:37.000 –> 01:17:41.000 You’d like to tell the audience. 01:17:41.000 –> 01:17:48.000 Yeah, I think that in particular, the asset class has power, and in particular has power for the extractive sector. 01:17:48.000 –> 01:18:10.000 So you can go and add it reactively or proactively, and I can almost guarantee that if you are proactive about your awareness, realization, and potential monetization of carbon as an asset class in your operations, you will do much better than your competitors and 01:18:10.000 –> 01:18:16.000 cohorts who go at it reactively, so lots to find out. 01:18:16.000 –> 01:18:17.000 And I do agree with salad. 01:18:17.000 –> 01:18:18.000 Great. 01:18:18.000 –> 01:18:24.000 Well, we’re in the lunch zone in the Ontario and Alberta. 01:18:24.000 –> 01:18:25.000 So maybe that’s skewed this a little bit. 01:18:25.000 –> 01:18:27.000 But Lisa first of all, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. 01:18:27.000 –> 01:18:32.000 I know you’re very busy, and we really do appreciate it. 01:18:32.000 –> 01:18:35.000 You’re certainly a wealth of knowledge in this area. 01:18:35.000 –> 01:18:38.000 I think all of us picked up some tidbits. 01:18:38.000 –> 01:18:45.000 So thank you for that. I’d like to thank the co-host Cheryl, and Jan for putting this together. 01:18:45.000 –> 01:18:49.000 Our platform is the smarten up inst Institute. So we have, Laurie. 01:18:49.000 –> 01:18:52.000 We have Sarah and we have Jim online. But most importantly, thank you. 01:18:52.000 –> 01:19:04.000 To the audience, always engaging, always asking lots of questions, always chatting among themselves, and we’ll make sure you get a transcript Lisa, because it’s hard to see all the chats going on well, while you’re talking. 01:19:04.000 –> 01:19:10.000 But you’ll see some good questions came in there, so thank you, Lisa. 01:19:10.000 –> 01:19:13.000 Thanks everyone. We do appreciate it. 01:19:13.000 –> 01:19:14.000 Thank you. 01:19:14.000 –> 01:19:22.000 Oh, my pleasure, a sticking! If I can answer anything that hasn’t been unanswered after this I will go online and do so so you can send them out with those links. 01:19:22.000 –> 01:19:23.000 Great thanks, so much. 01:19:23.000 –> 01:19:28.000 That’s great. For everyone’s online. We have a bits and bytes. 01:19:28.000 –> 01:19:36.000 Web site that has all this information. There will be a transcript that’s put out in a video as well we’ve recorded today. 01:19:36.000 –> 01:19:42.000 So you can access that anytime. It’s with your registration, and it’s free. 01:19:42.000 –> 01:19:47.000 And we’re here to bring a new perspectives and ideas that are floating around. 01:19:47.000 –> 01:19:49.000 And, as you could see, Lisa has a wealth of knowledge, and we will be able to send that information to her, and you can also connect with us if you need any further information. 01:19:49.000 –> 01:20:08.000 Thank you. 01:20:08.000 –> 01:20:11.000 Hope you’re getting some applause there, Lisa. 01:20:11.000 –> 01:20:12.000 Thanks, Marie. 01:20:12.000 –> 01:20:17.000 Great. 01:20:17.000 –> 01:20:21.000 Lisa, do you have 10 s? 01:20:21.000 –> 01:20:25.000 I’m curious about your view on nuclear power, because, like in mining, people are looking at, you know, modular reactors. 01:20:25.000 –> 01:20:38.000 So from a Co 2, perspective positive. But do you do you have a personal view on how, by the way, you’re muted above nuclear reactor? 01:20:38.000 –> 01:20:43.000 Yeah. Full disclosure. I used to sit on the board of Directors of Ontario power generation. 01:20:43.000 –> 01:20:46.000 I think nuclear is part of the solution. 01:20:46.000 –> 01:20:58.000 It’s not a one. Size fits all. So in particular, I’m interested in a small modular actors, and the very small modulo reactors, which are looking at that second generation fuel. 01:20:58.000 –> 01:21:04.000 So more circular economy approaches to the use of the fuel. 01:21:04.000 –> 01:21:10.000 The, I’ll send to the room with the clear. Always this. 01:21:10.000 –> 01:21:22.000 How do we deal with the waste? Particularly with large so it has a role. If you look at the Iea, the international energy agencies approach to nuclear, it’s definitely critical part of the energy transition. 01:21:22.000 –> 01:21:28.000 But there are also a number of other things that are are fairly key in that transition, as well. 01:21:28.000 –> 01:21:35.000 The recording’s piece in particular, being one of them using direct air capture to capture the Co. 01:21:35.000 –> 01:21:40.000 2. And actually using that as a form of synthetic fuel as well as a key. 01:21:40.000 –> 01:21:47.000 So lots going on. And this is really this, is that answer, Nathan, like everything everywhere all the time, right now, this is such a societal shift it’s part of the solution. 01:21:47.000 –> 01:21:54.000 It’s not the only solution. 01:21:54.000 –> 01:21:57.000 Yeah, cause we’re looking at that as one of our future topics. 01:21:57.000 –> 01:22:01.000 So that’s kind of why it was in my mind. Stuff. 01:22:01.000 –> 01:22:06.000 Yeah, I suggest, Nicole Butcher at Opg. 01:22:06.000 –> 01:22:12.000 She’s great, ken Heartwalk heart wicked Opg, or someone from Bruce. 01:22:12.000 –> 01:22:13.000 Nuclear was also interesting, or somebody from the World Association of Nuclear Operators.
00:18:40 I’m vp technologies from sheriff, and, as my mug says, I’m calling in from the shared office, in beautiful downtown Toronto Cheryl Hart works with us. She’s she runs her own shop on task strategies.
00:18:52 And she’s calling in from Richmond Hill, and John Smith’s calling in from beautiful downtown Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta, the site of our technologies Division, as well as where our nickel refinery is so lisa I really wish we had 3 h for you this hour is just gonna fly by. So the topic here is deep in your carbon credit knowledge, and the way it works is, I’ll be asking Lisa some questions discuss amongst yourselves in the chat room.
00:19:24 If you have a specific question, please ask it in the there’s a separate queue and a button.
00:19:31 If Cheryl sees anything exciting, trending in the chat room or yonder, they’ll break in and say, You know, hey, what do you think about this, Lisa?
00:19:40 So in general, you know. There, I’m not an expert on carbon credits, so I am hoping to learn a lot from this session.
00:19:48 But luckily Lisa is we’ll talk about different types of carbon credits.
00:19:53 Some of the the acronyms. What’s in setting?
00:19:56 What’s offsetting the latest developments in carbon credit legislation.
00:20:02 And it’s a chance for us to all learn about a very exciting topic.
00:20:06 So Lisa the Marco, I’ll get you to introduce yourself, but I’ll just give a look a few notes that I have here.
00:20:13 So Lisa is a senior partner, and CEO of Resilient Llp.
00:20:18 She’s a leading figure in sustainability and carbon finance industry.
00:20:22 She’s highly recognized expert in climbing and energy law, and a few people have been messaging us and said, they’ve heard you speak on panels, and they’re they’re quite happy that you’re joining us today.
00:20:32 Extensive background, advising leading financial and energy companies, and she’s recognized as a global elite thought leader in climate change.
00:20:42 And who’s legal. So, Lisa, I know your your backgrounds and legal, but you know I’m hearing to see the overlap with with regulation, with the Finance Society, and so forth.
00:20:55 As you could see. There’s a pool being launched right away.
00:21:00 We just wanna see your opinion that we’ll give the feedback to to Lisa on what you you’re thinking.
00:21:03 So please please answer the poll question before we get started.
00:21:08 So, Lisa, you want to just introduce yourself and let them know what you want them to know about you.
00:21:14 Well, thanks very much, Nathan, and thanks, and Cheryl as well for having me.
00:21:21 I think you’ve covered most of it.
00:21:23 If I had to summarize who I am and what I do, I would say 2 words, and they are carbon nerd.
00:21:31 We really get deep on all aspects of the use of an emission reduction or removal as a form of an asset class to facilitate meeting the parent schools in general and sustainability writ large and that can be part of esg and that can be part
00:21:53 of a prudent finance. Strategy as well. So that’s the summary.
00:21:57 I would add that resilience is Canada’s only climate change, specialized boutique law firm, and we do act in a association with fascin and other firms.
00:22:08 From time to time globally. So a tiny firm with a very, very large back office.
00:22:15 So that’s how we all.
00:22:18 Cheryl do you have the answers to the the poll?
00:22:19 Just curious what people are thinking.
00:22:34 So what he believes the primary function of a carbon credit so be interesting to see how everybody answers now and then.
00:22:40 After they hear some information from Lisa on how everybody feels. At the end of the session.
00:22:47 Okay.
00:22:50 Oh, there’s there’s a mix!
00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:55.000 It’s trending in this. Yeah.
00:22:55.000 –> 00:23:00.000 Exchange. Yeah. Alright. Let’s end the poll.
00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:02.000 Let’s see everybody put it in interpretive answers. Here.
00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:09.000 So about a 60% incentive for emitting less carbon.
00:23:09.000 –> 00:23:10.000 Okay, there you go, Lisa. It’s a good day.
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:17.000 And a third exchange currency between carbon emitter.
00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:18.000 Okay, gives you an idea.
00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:19.000 Okay, so Lisa, a couple, yeah. Couple of questions for you.
00:23:19.000 –> 00:23:26.000 So one. What inspired you to get involved in this field and how long you’ve been doing that.
00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:29.000 Maybe that’s not a fair question to you. You don’t have to answer that one, and yep, go ahead.
00:23:29.000 –> 00:23:34.000 Yeah, I started off as a scientist 5,000 years ago.
00:23:34.000 –> 00:23:51.000 I was doing graduate work on oil spills and using bacteria to clean up oil spills and got really, really interested on what I would call generally green capitalism.
00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:59.000 Using an environmental instrument, or a capital or financial instrument to achieve an environmental outcome.
00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:08.000 And from there really got involved in Knox and socks, trading, and went to school grad, school and law in the States where one of my pros was negotiating the Kyoto protocol and the UN.
00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:32.000 F triple C, and really the power of the market to achieve societal or environmental outcome, or both, really is at the heart of my personal beliefs, and has extraordinary power.
00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:37.000 So that was 30 years ago. Nathan, yeah, yeah.
00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:52.000 I say that quietly now, and it’s migrated through various forms of policy and legislation and involvement with the United Nations and active negotiating the UN. F Triplec.
00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:56.000 The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, and the related elements of the Paris agreement that flow from that.
00:24:56.000 –> 00:25:07.000 So it’s been part passion, part of session, and it’s gone through good years and bad years.
00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:09.000 But really, where we are now is I hate to use the term we’ve come a long way, baby, but we have come a long way.
00:25:09.000 –> 00:25:18.000 Baby. From where we started 30 odd years ago in the development of the policy and the formalization of the instrument.
00:25:18.000 –> 00:25:31.000 Into, I’ll say broadly, an asset class which can be used for varying purposes.
00:25:31.000 –> 00:25:41.000 Just so when I introduce myself, I usually say I have 30 plus years, and somebody told me no, just say 20 plus 20 plus, you know, lots of experience.
00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:45.000 When you say 30 you sound old, but I think they were referring to me, not to you.
00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:47.000 You were much better than I is, so.
00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:50.000 Oh, where? The yeah.
00:25:50.000 –> 00:25:56.000 So, in your opinion, you know what are some of the current trends, and also you know, what do you predict?
00:25:56.000 –> 00:26:03.000 The you know what what future trends will be in this area.
00:26:03.000 –> 00:26:17.000 Yeah, there are a couple of things that we’re really seeing develop very significantly a nature based climate solutions or nbs, as it’s known, or Ncs as it’s known, are really very active.
00:26:17.000 –> 00:26:36.000 And those are either preserving, existing landscapes for us, and preventing deforestation, forest destruction, or reforesting areas that were a forested or destroyed.
00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:41.000 And we’re seeing a lot of initiatives around there, because the narrative is pretty easy to tell.
00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:53.000 If you’re an extractive industry, if you’re speaking to a public trees are inhabited, understandable.
00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:58.000 Some of the other elements, of how you would create a carbon creditor are trickier to understand.
00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:11.000 So so those forms of emission, reductions and emission removals where you’re planting in an area that’s never been planted or really, really attractive and growing in importance in price.
00:27:11.000 –> 00:27:12.000 And the second major trend that we see is in relation to negative emissions.
00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:23.000 Technology solution removals. You saw in an article in the Globe yesterday, hey?
00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:25.000 About carbon engineering licensing. It’s direct air capture technology.
00:27:25.000 –> 00:27:35.000 Think of it as the Co. 2 vacuum from the air.
00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:37.000 Really what it’s based on is submarine technology.
00:27:37.000 –> 00:27:44.000 So vacuuming the Co. 2 from the air, mineralizing it and putting it back underground in a permanently stable mineral form.
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:49.000 That’s extremely attractive, and part of the solution of where we need to go to actually achieve our Paris goals.
00:27:49.000 –> 00:27:51.000 So those are 2 major trends in the types of assets.
00:27:51.000 –> 00:28:04.000 We see, and then in the markets themselves. We’re seeing very creative, sustainable finance initiatives arise.
00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:15.000 So sustainability link loans, sustainable asset, backed finance in many forms and integration of public private partnerships around.
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:22.000 What can be done, and what should be done to build new infrastructure that is inherently sustainable.
00:28:22.000 –> 00:28:30.000 And when I say sustainable, I mean not just climate reducing, but also sorry climate, emission reducing, but also adaptive.
00:28:30.000 –> 00:28:39.000 So addressing what we are currently feeling as the changes resulting from climate change.
00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:53.000 Nathan, where you have a poll here to help kind of connect with what Lisa is saying, to see if how anybody has already invested or used carbon credits in their business in daily life.
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:56.000 Interesting. Who’s already engaged on this?
00:28:56.000 –> 00:28:59.000 So while that’s going on, I’ll ask you a couple of questions. Lisa.
00:28:59.000 –> 00:29:09.000 You could answer them in any order. So do you see this topic as a as legal, as financial, as societal, or some Venn diagram of.
00:29:09.000 –> 00:29:14.000 And my other question is, what kind of missingceptions do you see?
00:29:14.000 –> 00:29:21.000 Like right now, there’s a trend in mining where everyone’s claiming their tailings is the vacuum for for Co.
00:29:21.000 –> 00:29:38.000 2, you know. I think they’re ignoring all the trees that they have to cut down to do the mining, but you know that that could be one misconception, another one is like people are saying, like, well, Pay me not to chop down my tree, and I had no intention of chopping down, said 3, but you know, if you pay me, we’re gonna save, you know, some CO2, because the tree is is there? Oh, here’s the results.
00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:52.000 It looks like 60% know, have they personally invested about a quarter?
00:29:52.000 –> 00:30:00.000 Yes, and 20% are not sure if they’ve invested in their daily lives or not. Hmm!
00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:02.000 That’s an interesting one. Is that what you see, Lisa?
00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:03.000 Do people you talk to?
00:30:03.000 –> 00:30:14.000 That’s a good answer, that’s a really good answer in terms of not sure, because many people are not aware that they’re currently ining or using carbon credits in your business or daily life.
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:18.000 Do you get gas from enrich? You are investing in carbon credits.
00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:24.000 If you have, do you have an electricity supplier?
00:30:24.000 –> 00:30:30.000 That is powering your home or your business quite often.
00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:35.000 There’s Associated carbon assets included in that.
00:30:35.000 –> 00:30:45.000 So I think many more people are, in fact, investing in a carbon instrument carbon asset, and they don’t know it.
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:52.000 You asked about misconceptions there are many, but the first question, just remind me again.
00:30:52.000 –> 00:30:55.000 Nathan was about.
00:30:55.000 –> 00:30:58.000 If if you see it, then like, I know you’re in the legal area.
00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:05.000 But is this more legal, financial? Just? I’ll truistic, societal.
00:31:05.000 –> 00:31:10.000 Yeah, no. And I’ve done a talk recently on the top 10 Oscar nominations.
00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:22.000 And the answer to that question is really really best crystallized by the film.
00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:28.000 Everything, everywhere, all the time. It is a financial instrument, or can be.
00:31:28.000 –> 00:31:31.000 It can be a commodity. It can be used for related financing.
00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:38.000 It can have huge societal and community benefits.
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:42.000 And there are specific protocols for types of credits that are.
00:31:42.000 –> 00:31:51.000 What we call charismatic carbon, that have that character to it, and it’s much more than just what we used to call consumer.
00:31:51.000 –> 00:32:06.000 Csr, it’s definitely much, much more of a mainstay for financial instrument or asset class that will help us transition to a decoderized world.
00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:20.000 So it does have characteristics of finance. It does have characteristics of this characteristics of society. Best way to think about it is everything everywhere, all the time.
00:32:20.000 –> 00:32:28.000 On your question on misconceptions. I don’t know if any of you have seen the John Oliver segment on carbon offsets.
00:32:28.000 –> 00:32:35.000 It was hilarious. It was very, very funny. It was replete with misconceptions.
00:32:35.000 –> 00:32:37.000 It’s not just paying somebody to avoid polluting.
00:32:37.000 –> 00:32:46.000 There. It isn’t a free for all with Wild Wild West room for improvement, room for increased standardization room for increased monitoring and reporting.
00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:52.000 There was a recent guardian article that was pretty critical of some of the methodologies.
00:32:52.000 –> 00:33:05.000 There was a reply. With scientific experts, saying, You’ve got a lot of this wrong, but some of them is misconceptions.
00:33:05.000 –> 00:33:10.000 We see you’re just paying somebody not to pollute when they weren’t going to pollute, anyway.
00:33:10.000 –> 00:33:16.000 Not true. There’s a concept called additionality that you have to show.
00:33:16.000 –> 00:33:19.000 You have to show that this is not business as usual.
00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:31.000 This is regulatory, additional, so additional to required regulatory requirements or legal requirements, and also financially additional.
00:33:31.000 –> 00:33:35.000 This is not just what would have happened with the regular investment of funds in the normal course of business.
00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:53.000 And this is why renewable energy in areas that are highly adaptive to renewable energies, becoming less additional and less subject of the ability to create a carbon credit.
00:33:53.000 –> 00:33:57.000 Also, people don’t understand that there are 2 types of markets.
00:33:57.000 –> 00:34:00.000 There’s the voluntary carbon market where it’s not required.
00:34:00.000 –> 00:34:11.000 You’re simply undertaking activity in accordance with the protocol or recipe to create a credit because you want to.
00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:16.000 And then many are buying those credits, and then there’s compliance.
00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:27.000 Carbon credits, where, for example, in Canada, we have a regulated offset system in Alberta they have the tier system in many other jurisdictions around the world.
00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:35.000 California. They have their own systems of offsets that can be used as a compliance instrument in a regulated carbon pricing system.
00:34:35.000 –> 00:34:40.000 Whether that’s a cap and trade or a carbon pricing with large system.
00:34:40.000 –> 00:34:44.000 They’re very, they’re very regulated.
00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:50.000 And rigorous about what you can use, and quite often under Article 6 in the Paris Agreement we see a bit of a convergence.
00:34:50.000 –> 00:35:00.000 We see people starting with the mark, the voluntary market, and certain countries allowing endorsement in a compliance, situation.
00:35:00.000 –> 00:35:07.000 Is one more impactful than the other, or the where it seemed like, you’re saying, both are working. 00:35:07.000 –> 00:35:14.000 Both are working, because one without the other you’re missing part of the value chain. 00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:25.000 The voluntary market captures what is yet to be the subject of regulation, the compliance market often is associated with a regulated cap. 00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:37.000 Whether that is, the countries nationally determined contribution under the parasit agreement, or an actual number a cap on emissions like Canada has. 00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:44.000 And that’s very important. Right? If we’re going to meet the Paris agreements, we have to keep our eye on the ball. 00:35:44.000 –> 00:35:53.000 We have to reduce emissions such that we’re at net 0 by twenty-fifty, and the impacts of not doing that are pretty disastrous. 00:35:53.000 –> 00:36:12.000 You can only only need to look to Bloomberg or any other news source to see the difference between a 1.5°C rise, and a 2 degree rise and 3 degrees is quite quite disastrous in terms of people and ecosystems and geopolitics 00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:20.000 and aquatic ecosystems. There’s a host of impacts that are really important to keep in mind. 00:36:20.000 –> 00:36:28.000 Can you describe for us some of the more impactful or innovative projects that either you, or through resilient or even that you’ve heard about? 00:36:28.000 –> 00:36:31.000 You know, type type of projects out there. 00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:43.000 Yeah, let me talk about my first project. One of my first projects a gazillion years ago with the World Bank, where there was a sugar mill in India. 00:36:43.000 –> 00:36:52.000 That was producing in the normal course, and much affluent and sludge coming out of that production. 00:36:52.000 –> 00:37:13.000 And it was causing significant amounts and other issues associated with the degradation of that waste that we’re causing some health problems in the local communities and technology provider came along and said, we can do this by actually capturing the waste which is called the gas and using it to 00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:20.000 actually produce energy to electrify or energize the related plant. 00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:31.000 And you know, we’re gonna sell the emission credits to the World Bank to help us findance that activity with the revenues. 00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:45.000 We will decrease the cost of capital to make the plant be built we’ll also build a hospital, will give a number of the revenue streams back to the local communities, and everybody wins. 00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:50.000 So that was very, very significant. Project on the removal side. 00:37:50.000 –> 00:38:02.000 Last year we were involved. It’s public in the sale of emission removals from Occidental petroleum, and there subsidiary. 00:38:02.000 –> 00:38:17.000 1.5, using that directly, or capture that carbon vacuum to Airbus to help make all of its flights effectively approach net 0. And very significant. 00:38:17.000 –> 00:38:24.000 First of its kind, global and impact and largest globally in the removal space. 00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000 So those are 2 2 types of deals that we’ve seen that have been quite significant. 00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:36.000 And certainly the nature-based climate solutions, deals are very impactful on local communities. 00:38:36.000 –> 00:38:40.000 We were having a little discussion in the Pre, in the preparation stage of this, about a certain mining Esg. 00:38:40.000 –> 00:38:50.000 Activities that really are the gift that keeps on giving to local communities. 00:38:50.000 –> 00:38:54.000 Many of the nature based climate solutions. I’d point you to the work of world world worldwide carbon worldwide at worldwide carbon Wwc. 00:38:54.000 –> 00:39:06.000 Who works with Evelyn, a marketing company to really facilitate those benefits. 00:39:06.000 –> 00:39:08.000 They really have great stuff going on that are additional. They work with the governments. 00:39:08.000 –> 00:39:16.000 So there’s certainty. And it’s actually beneficial to the projects in the area as well. 00:39:16.000 –> 00:39:17.000 Lots of good stuff. 00:39:17.000 –> 00:39:18.000 So, yeah, you all share a lot. 00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:21.000 Nicken. There’s a fair bit of questions here going on like some. 00:39:21.000 –> 00:39:22.000 There’s a fair bit of you know, in the chat right now. 00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:30.000 Ask you about monitoring this. So this is speaking about, you know the implementation you know, we’re transferring. 00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:32.000 And you know the Paris agreement. But a fair bit of people are saying, How do? 00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:37.000 How do we manage this? And the policing of it? 00:39:37.000 –> 00:39:42.000 And you know it’s so global. When Canada has, as you just mentioned, you have one province going, you know, speaking about, you know the way they’re managing it versus another province. 00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:51.000 This is only Canada like, how do we, everyone? There’s a fair bit of questions about policing. 00:39:51.000 –> 00:39:57.000 Yeah, yeah, let me talk. Speak to that in Canada. It’s a bit easier, because it’s a regulated system. 00:39:57.000 –> 00:40:12.000 There are regulatory requirements, but in each and all cases, whether it’s a voluntary system or compliance system, there’s the requirement to have an arms length in independent verifier. 00:40:12.000 –> 00:40:21.000 Actually confirm that what you say is going to be reduced was reduced in a very technical and strong manner, not easy to pass. 00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:22.000 Those verification requirements. So in the first instance, the project itself is validated. 00:40:22.000 –> 00:40:39.000 Yes, if you implement this project, it will result in these mission reductions, and the second part is verification. 00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:41.000 This project did result in these emission reductions. We go on site. We test the equipment. 00:40:41.000 –> 00:41:05.000 We have data, we subject that to all sorts of rigorous data requirements in accordance with the defined standard, the largest one is called Vera, which administers the verified carbon standard and if it’s not verified, it’s not worth the paper, it’s written on we 00:41:05.000 –> 00:41:13.000 do have some instances in the market right now, if it’s not verified, don’t touch it. 00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:19.000 That’s your integrity, integrity, voice speaking. We also have a couple of oversight initiatives. 00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:30.000 The Carney Commission the task force for scaling the voluntary carbon market, which is now called the Integrity Commission for the voluntary carbon market or IC. 00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:50.000 Vcm. Is looking at the supply side and trying to administer a series of core carbon principles that if it meets those core carbon principles, the supply will get a tag, and then on the demand side, I sit on the expert advisory group of the voluntary carbon 00:41:50.000 –> 00:41:58.000 market initiative which is looking at what claims you can make with the best supply. 00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:05.000 And so this is ongoing, and then last, but not least, there’s a role for the public and oversight. 00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:15.000 Many of these are publicly posted, or have to be, as part of the Creation initiative, and there are competitive forces who, wanna, you know, give it a hard time. 00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:19.000 Give it a go if it’s not the highest and best. 00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:27.000 And so we see that public consultation being used actively so, lots of mechanisms now for oversight. 00:42:27.000 –> 00:42:35.000 Of course, the best is regulation, but the standardization of the voluntary market has come a long, long way and is coming further as well. 00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:38.000 Oh, I see a question just pop up that I wanna answer. Can I go at it? 00:42:38.000 –> 00:42:40.000 Yeah, it could go for it. 00:42:40.000 –> 00:42:42.000 You’re allowed. 00:42:42.000 –> 00:42:50.000 The question was it was the Kyoto mechanism effective and the Kyoto mechanism was actually 3 mechanisms. 00:42:50.000 –> 00:43:10.000 There was the Cdm. The clean development mechanism which was really effective at bringing awareness to carbon pricing and facilitating emission reductions in countries that didn’t have a cap under the Kyoto protocol and that’s really how we got to carbon 00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:15.000 pricing in China, if they had not been active participants in the Cdm. 00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000 The concept of China implementing a market mechanism would have not happened. 00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:31.000 It just simply wouldn’t have happened. Then there was the joint implementation mechanism which was in developing countries that had been economic since transition predominantly. 00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:36.000 And there are arguments as to why that was or was not effective. 00:43:36.000 –> 00:43:47.000 Certainly in terms of reaching that global scenario where everyone is covered by a cap that didn’t happen until Paris and that’s where we need to go. 00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:51.000 That’s where we went. But Kyoto was a good start. 00:43:51.000 –> 00:43:59.000 Some of the protocols were very effective. Paris is where we need to go. 00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:03.000 Well, we should send them up to whoever asked that question, and I share it like. 00:44:03.000 –> 00:44:09.000 So Lisa Lisa, there’s some words that you know we hear in in the public like offsetting in setting leakage, additionality. What what? 00:44:09.000 –> 00:44:16.000 Should the audience know like, what do these mean? What you know? 00:44:16.000 –> 00:44:19.000 What do they do? 00:44:19.000 –> 00:44:26.000 Yeah. So we touched upon additionality that it has to be additional to business as usual, you can’t just do the same thing. 00:44:26.000 –> 00:44:31.000 You’ve always done, or the same thing that you’re financially incentive to do and get a carbon credit. 00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:43.000 It does have to be additional to business as usual, additional to regulatory requirements, and it has to have a real associated benefit. 00:44:43.000 –> 00:44:48.000 Leakage is part of how you determine whether or not there’s that benefit. 00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:53.000 Are you simply moving production from one side of a border to another? 00:44:53.000 –> 00:45:00.000 Side of the border are the emissions just changing jurisdiction with the same atmosphere impact. 00:45:00.000 –> 00:45:03.000 So that’s cool. So that’s one of the criteria that you have to look at. 00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:07.000 What is the leakage? Dynamic when you are creating a credit? 00:45:07.000 –> 00:45:14.000 And if there is leakage significantly, kids, you cannot create that credit. 00:45:14.000 –> 00:45:15.000 Offsetting is often now seen to be determined to be compliance, mitigation contributing to compliance, mitigation. 00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:29.000 It’s when you use it, a specific emission reduction that’s beyond your scope of activity. That’s beyond your scope of activity. 00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:34.000 You’re all probably familiar with scope one and scope 2 and scope 3 emissions. 00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:38.000 Your direct, your indirect energy, and your supply chain emissions. 00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:48.000 1, 2, 3. When you go beyond that, and you purchase somebody else’s emission reductions to use against your and a short reductions. 00:45:48.000 –> 00:45:49.000 And sometimes that’s part of a compliance system. 00:45:49.000 –> 00:46:01.000 So Californian, Quebec and Alberta absolutely allow, regulated offsets to be used as compliance and instruments in their systems. 00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:15.000 They have recipes or protocols, or methodologies, for how you do that, and other times they’re voluntarily created in setting is when you look into your supply chain, and you actually help someone in your supply chain. 00:46:15.000 –> 00:46:21.000 Reduce those emissions, and you use them in your overall calculation of your often scope. 00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:43.000 3 emissions. So, for example, airlines right now are trying to incent their customers to fly, using sustainable aviation fuel, and they do that by facilitating these programs where the customers actually purchase higher price ticket that goes towards the 00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:47.000 purchasing of sustainable aviation fuel, so the airline takes a scope, one emission production that customer takes a scope, 3. Emission reduction. 00:46:47.000 –> 00:47:04.000 That’s a form of in setting, and that’s to enable the supply of sustainable aviation fuel to in a market-based manner. 00:47:04.000 –> 00:47:13.000 Increase, we’re really low on the amount of sustainable aviation fuel in setting, and that’s to enable the supply of sustainable aviation fuel to in a market based manner increase. 00:47:13.000 –> 00:47:25.000 We’re really low on the amount of sustainable aviation fuel that we need to actually get to a net 0 criteria that’s required by the international Civil aviation organization which has its own form of regulated but quasi voluntary emission reduction scheme right now, we’re 00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:30.000 in the preliminary phase, we’ll switch from 2025 to the mandatory phase. 00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:34.000 Someone just messaged me privately with their home email at or home address for the Mug. 00:47:34.000 –> 00:47:35.000 I have no idea if they actually ask the question or not, I’ll rely on Cheryl. 00:47:35.000 –> 00:47:37.000 So if I take a plane and promise the plant some mango trees in Cuba. 00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:45.000 Is that exactly. 00:47:45.000 –> 00:47:47.000 Not really, unless you go through a protocol and your mango plantation in Cuba meets all the requests of one of the standards. 00:47:47.000 –> 00:48:12.000 Methodologies, and if the mango trees were being built, I could say mangrove on a coastal area that is facilitating complete absorption of the carbon that would otherwise be released. 00:48:12.000 –> 00:48:20.000 When you destroy those marsh and mangrove areas that’s called blue carbon and that’s a very important form of removal. 00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:37.000 It’s gonna take you about 2 years to actually develop that project, go through all the requirements to produce your project, design document, or Pdd, I was telling the gang earlier, you know, in carbon, we don’t really speak English. 00:48:37.000 –> 00:48:43.000 We only Tlas, or 4 Flas, 3 letter acronyms, or 4 letter acronyms. 00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:44.000 So I’m gonna try and define them. But if you catch me out, please call me out. 00:48:44.000 –> 00:49:11.000 So in that regard, it is gonna take you about 2 years to get through creating your project design document, having your project validated, getting it registered with the voluntary carbon system and a verified carbon system and having it verified by an arm’s length independent qualified 00:49:11.000 –> 00:49:15.000 verifier before you have your carbon credit in hand. 00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:22.000 So, Nathan, if you want to go and undertake that in relation to your next slide and next slide, have at it. 00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:25.000 Shouldn’t an la have 4 words in it? Cheryl. 00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:26.000 There are! 00:49:26.000 –> 00:49:30.000 You looked at Cheryl. You wanted to. You said there was somebody from Cooper had a question. 00:49:30.000 –> 00:49:31.000 You wanted to. 00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:33.000 Yeah, Cooper Quinn’s actually got some great questions. 00:49:33.000 –> 00:49:36.000 I think there’s 2 things that we do have, and I don’t like to make sure we get to our next question like, if there’s a company, how do you start this? 00:49:36.000 –> 00:49:45.000 And so let’s get Cooper in, and and the neat thing can ask the next question. After Cooper. 00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:52.000 If you don’t mind either. Just just voice over Video if you want. And you can ask Lisa. 00:49:52.000 –> 00:49:55.000 So much pressure. And yeah, I was. I was with Nathan. There. 00:49:55.000 –> 00:49:56.000 I was trying to wrap my head around the the fla, being a tla, and I was confusing that. 00:49:56.000 –> 00:50:03.000 But no thanks so much, Lisa, you know I just kind of curious how you see kind of the Cdr. 00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:09.000 And the offset markets evolving, you know. 00:50:09.000 –> 00:50:12.000 Certainly you mentioned Vera earlier. Obviously, I think the people in the space kind of saw the some of the pushback on the nature based solutions. 00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:20.000 We’re seeing a bit more of that, and maybe an increasing focus on durability. 00:50:20.000 –> 00:50:24.000 But then you’ve got the high cost of technology based solutions and stuff. 00:50:24.000 –> 00:50:38.000 So how you kind of see the compliance market shifting and adapting to account for some of that. And you know you’re seeing a little bit of that in the voluntary markets, maybe with pros changes to kind of their d just curious kinda like it seems like 00:50:38.000 –> 00:50:39.000 we’re seeing a bit of a shift here, and curious to see what what you think. 00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:42.000 If that makes any sense. 00:50:42.000 –> 00:50:43.000 Yeah, we don’t see rapid fall off in the market in any way, shape or form. 00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:51.000 It’s great question, Cooper, in relation to the actual forward market curve. 00:50:51.000 –> 00:50:55.000 There are a number of agencies out there, I would say. 00:50:55.000 –> 00:51:01.000 Clear blue is. One. Opus is another one that actually publish forward market curves for price. 00:51:01.000 –> 00:51:16.000 Of course, but in relation to the voluntary market we see enhanced stringency around the criteria coming forward we see convergence with in particular countries, compliance standards. 00:51:16.000 –> 00:51:35.000 So we saw this with Indonesia, where they had a few months more moratorium on any voluntary credits coming outside of their jurisdiction, they were very adamant, and saying, You know, nothing goes out until we figure out what we’re doing with our new our newest discovered natural resource 00:51:35.000 –> 00:51:47.000 and that natural resources, carbon. And you’re seeing many countries kind of discover that we’re gonna treat this just like we do other extractive resources. 00:51:47.000 –> 00:51:55.000 We have to figure out what the concession scheme is, what the royalty scheme is, how this works for our country. 00:51:55.000 –> 00:52:00.000 So with that convergence, we see some really interesting increases in certainty. 00:52:00.000 –> 00:52:05.000 In the market we see some not so great examples of activity. 00:52:05.000 –> 00:52:09.000 There’s been weeded out of the market on the compliance side. 00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:15.000 We track through the international Emissions Trading Association, full disclosure. 00:52:15.000 –> 00:52:24.000 I am currently the active chair of that global organization. We track the number of countries that are implementing carbon pricing schemes. 00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:32.000 And that is increasing at an exponential rate. And we don’t see that decreasing so we don’t see it as a straight line increase in the curve. 00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:38.000 There’s gonna be bumps along the way, but we do with a number of these initiatives. 00:52:38.000 –> 00:52:52.000 See a general trend toward very significant increase in the marketplace. And if you look at the last 2 years, I think the rate of change is fairly predictive of what we’re expecting over the next 10 years. 00:52:52.000 –> 00:52:56.000 Start, then try to expect perfection out of the gate. 00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:59.000 Not gonna happen right? We’re just gonna run another poll. 00:52:59.000 –> 00:53:00.000 Nathan to see how people are feeling about this. 00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000 And. 00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:08.000 Now, since they’ve gotten a little bit more information from Lisa. 00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:12.000 And carbon credits, we used to mitigate climate change. 00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:15.000 So basically, you get a temperament of the room. 00:53:15.000 –> 00:53:19.000 That’s great. I have a spoiler on this one. 00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:20.000 So! 00:53:20.000 –> 00:53:22.000 Well, we’re looking at. 00:53:22.000 –> 00:53:26.000 Yeah, but you know, point, that’s really good in terms of don’t expect perfection out of the gate. 00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:30.000 Perfectionist the enemy. It’s good right now. 00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:51.000 This 7 year window. If you follow the science, if you are a student of the intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which is 1,400 independent scientists from around the world that have received a Nobel Prize for their work in this area we don’t have time to 00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:59.000 waste, so I’d rather be 98% sure on the data and requirements and get that activity undertaken. 00:53:59.000 –> 00:54:12.000 Now before 2030, instead of having to take very painful action and costly action from 2030 to 2050. 00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:13.000 So! 00:54:13.000 –> 00:54:18.000 So it seemed like the lion’s share was agree, or strongly agree. 00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:22.000 But there was a well, 38% disagrees. 00:54:22.000 –> 00:54:27.000 So how do we, or how do you mitigate that? 00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000 Review it! 00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:32.000 I think education is a huge part of that for sure. And I’m gonna point you to the University of Maryland. 00:54:32.000 –> 00:54:46.000 Peer-reviewed study. That shows that with carbon credits, carbon pricing in the system, you can either do 250 billion more. 00:54:46.000 –> 00:54:52.000 Emission reductions per year, or save a trillion dollars in the cost of compliance compared to commit and control. 00:54:52.000 –> 00:54:58.000 And that’s what it’s about. It’s more faster and cheaper. 00:54:58.000 –> 00:55:01.000 That’s the role of the carbon credit. And really, now is the time. 00:55:01.000 –> 00:55:12.000 As as I say, this 7 year period is really really important and critical minerals are a critical point of that trajectory. 00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:21.000 So I’m looking forward to seeing what mining operations around the world will do to utilize carbon as an asset class. 00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000 Many, are. 00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:28.000 Bobby was asking if there’s a link for the study. 00:55:28.000 –> 00:55:29.000 Yeah. 00:55:29.000 –> 00:55:32.000 If if you can get it to us after we’re if you have it, we can add it to the chat, or make sure people have an opportunity to see it. 00:55:32.000 –> 00:55:33.000 Yeah, also. 00:55:33.000 –> 00:55:44.000 2 more questions for me. You can answer them, anyway. You’d like, so what’s your personal opinion about the importance of collaboration and creating partnerships and carbon credit space? 00:55:44.000 –> 00:55:53.000 And the second one. If people want to get involved in in the carbon finance field and want to make a positive impact, how would they go about doing that? 00:55:53.000 –> 00:55:57.000 Yeah, the first of all on collaboration you’ve hit the nail on the head. 00:55:57.000 –> 00:56:10.000 The best. What we call most charismatic carbon crits have government involvement in forms in the form of agreement or benefit, sharing. 00:56:10.000 –> 00:56:27.000 They have local, community and stakeholder involvement, and they have an ongoing benefit to the area and the community, and that transparency that happens through a broader community as well is a key part of the narrative. 00:56:27.000 –> 00:56:37.000 The short answer is, collaboration is critical. The more you do, the more car charismatic your carbon will be, the more charismatic you, carbon is, the higher price you get for it. 00:56:37.000 –> 00:56:43.000 It’s really that simple. 00:56:43.000 –> 00:56:44.000 Is that a thing? A Ccc. The Carriersmatic carbon credit? 00:56:44.000 –> 00:56:47.000 Could we use it now? 00:56:47.000 –> 00:57:01.000 Well, some of the brokers definitely use it. So charismatic carbon, and you’ll see that this is moved from a developer model where you have these small businesses who are active in developing credits. 00:57:01.000 –> 00:57:11.000 If you want to get involved, are great to talk with to a number of those developers growing to the size where they’re being acquired by banks and other institutional providers. 00:57:11.000 –> 00:57:15.000 So you can see on the news the recent acquisition of Radical by Bank of Montreal. 00:57:15.000 –> 00:57:22.000 So Bemo Radical is a very significant developer. 00:57:22.000 –> 00:57:30.000 Similarly blue source was acquired by private equity. Group Tpg, they’re now called a new, very significant developer. 00:57:30.000 –> 00:57:37.000 These are the folks that you want to go to, and you say, listen, I’ve got it undertake some infrastructure change, or I’m developing a mind. 00:57:37.000 –> 00:57:39.000 I want to do it in a sustainable way. 00:57:39.000 –> 00:57:50.000 How can I do that? To actually harness the carbon related value in the area to help me do and undertake this project in the most sustainable way? 00:57:50.000 –> 00:58:11.000 And if I do, so, am I eligible for favorable finance in the form of sustainability, like loans or a bond, or some other form of sustainable finance that is available to me as a function of that better than a norm that additional production benefit that 00:58:11.000 –> 00:58:15.000 I’ve created from developing in this way. 00:58:15.000 –> 00:58:17.000 I see he has his hand up very polite. 00:58:17.000 –> 00:58:25.000 Yeah, there’s an interesting question on the Amazon has come out with a new carbon credit label they call. 00:58:25.000 –> 00:58:27.000 I presume, that you get your carbon credit delivered to your doorstep. 00:58:27.000 –> 00:58:37.000 But what is your view of the involvement of companies like Amazon in this space? 00:58:37.000 –> 00:58:44.000 Yeah, Amazon and Bezos Earth Fund are taking a leadership role in the space. 00:58:44.000 –> 00:59:01.000 Very significant leadership role. And what are the most talented people in the carbon market who is now working for Bezos Earth Fund is Kelly Czar. She was one of the lead negotiators on Article 6 of the Paris Agreement and when we talk about Integrity and 00:59:01.000 –> 00:59:10.000 quality, and the best credits possible, I would hold up a picture of Kelly next to that, so I’m quite thrilled. 00:59:10.000 –> 00:59:19.000 That basis is in and very actively developing differentiated carbon offerings that’ve got something involved. 00:59:19.000 –> 00:59:24.000 They’ve got involvement in the recent John Kerry announced. 00:59:24.000 –> 00:59:32.000 Energy, transition, accelerator, Rockefeller is also involved in that they’ve gotten involvement and ocean related carbon. 00:59:32.000 –> 00:59:33.000 They’ve got significant involvement in all forms of nature, based climate solutions and driving integrity. 00:59:33.000 –> 00:59:49.000 There, and they’ve been very involved in the Saba sustainable Aviation Buyers Association, carbon credit requirements and developing demand. There. 00:59:49.000 –> 00:59:55.000 So I’m generally a fan of what’s going on through base of earth. 00:59:55.000 –> 00:59:58.000 So, Lisa, I was asking you about, you know. 00:59:58.000 –> 01:00:01.000 How do people get involved with but Cheryl just asked me to. 01:00:01.000 –> 01:00:03.000 What would corporations do if they want to get started along the path of carbon credits? 01:00:03.000 –> 01:00:09.000 Any suggestions there. 01:00:09.000 –> 01:00:18.000 Yeah, I would suggest contacting one of the developers are looking at your operations in relation to a number of the available methodologies and your gonna get the acronym wrong. 01:00:18.000 –> 01:00:25.000 Now I, Ccm, is that right? Has a number of activities on it. 01:00:25.000 –> 01:00:30.000 Rio Tinto has been a leader in that. 01:00:30.000 –> 01:00:42.000 And so looking at what your Global Industry Association has and what information they have on accessing the carbon markets. 01:00:42.000 –> 01:00:54.000 Voluntarily, also, when you’re working on concessions or dealing with related royalties and land rights, mining rights with certain governments, this should be a term. 01:00:54.000 –> 01:01:00.000 This should definitely be ahead of term, that you’re actively negotiating and considering with those governments, there’s a lot of value there, both for them and for you. 01:01:00.000 –> 01:01:12.000 So don’t just let it dissipate without even considering it in terms of individuals. 01:01:12.000 –> 01:01:22.000 There are a number of things you can look at, either, probably through your utility or through other organizations that are acceptable to individuals. 01:01:22.000 –> 01:01:26.000 As somebody mentioned pure earth, they’re predominantly removals. 01:01:26.000 –> 01:01:29.000 It was Cooper mentioned, purely earth predominantly. 01:01:29.000 –> 01:01:39.000 Removals focused, we as a law firm, are looking at office setting number of our emissions, which are predominantly scope 3. 01:01:39.000 –> 01:01:43.000 Through a removals offering, and they’re accessible to people. 01:01:43.000 –> 01:01:49.000 Virgin also has a people accessible offering. There are a number that have portfolios of carbon credits. 01:01:49.000 –> 01:01:55.000 If you want to look at your own emissions, profile and Microsoft has a Ghg. 01:01:55.000 –> 01:02:03.000 Emissions. Calculator, so if you wanna start with the knowledge of just how bad am I from an emitter perspective as a law firm, we were pretty good on our direct scope. 01:02:03.000 –> 01:02:10.000 One, and scope 2 emissions. It’s terrible on screen. 01:02:10.000 –> 01:02:17.000 3 missions, relatively because how often I spend it on how much time I spend on a plane. 01:02:17.000 –> 01:02:30.000 So looking at that and building that into your decarbonization strategy it’s a big deal and there were certain things that we did that were really straightforward. 01:02:30.000 –> 01:02:31.000 Hmm! 01:02:31.000 –> 01:02:36.000 We moved to a paperless paper consumption, was one of the biggest forms of emissions, and we’re all on ipads. 01:02:36.000 –> 01:02:44.000 Where all our notes are taken on ipads. Now, and it was kind of a win-win solution. 01:02:44.000 –> 01:02:50.000 It made for much easier filing requirements and recording of data for us. 01:02:50.000 –> 01:02:57.000 And really decreased. Our related paper costs. I see that’s what I see. 01:02:57.000 –> 01:02:58.000 Thanks. 01:02:58.000 –> 01:03:14.000 Yeah, can I ask the dreaded question? You know, you see, on the people flying around the gates the private, the project jets, you know, and I think this kind of feeds into the pieces where people say, is this really gonna make a change are we just gonna shift, greenwashing? 01:03:14.000 –> 01:03:17.000 Let’s just call it what it is. Right? So we have, you know, Gates saying I’m saving here, but I’m flying everywhere. 01:03:17.000 –> 01:03:25.000 To stay there. So I just I find it’s it’s conflicting and how to absorb this. 01:03:25.000 –> 01:03:33.000 And then then we have, you know, the beginning kind of going back to this piece where we said, we don’t even know if we’re helping carbon credits. 01:03:33.000 –> 01:03:36.000 So is there really just a lack of media attention on this advertising, like something? 01:03:36.000 –> 01:03:40.000 I’m in Ontario, the Opg. Like, why do I like? 01:03:40.000 –> 01:03:59.000 I had no idea this was happening. So I’m kind of looking at the beginning of this question of our conversation here why don’t I know and why don’t I really understand the intricacies, the I guess more scope 3 items that happens with people trying to make change but 01:03:59.000 –> 01:04:02.000 they’re taking jets to go make that change. So. 01:04:02.000 –> 01:04:06.000 We’ll share Cheryl, shouldn’t we have checked with our speaker if she drives? 01:04:06.000 –> 01:04:09.000 If she has a private check. 01:04:09.000 –> 01:04:10.000 Yeah. 01:04:10.000 –> 01:04:12.000 Yeah. Nope, no private chat or 2 electric cars. 01:04:12.000 –> 01:04:16.000 So I but you know what not. Easy. 01:04:16.000 –> 01:04:17.000 No! 01:04:17.000 –> 01:04:23.000 I’m still heated by we’re in the process of converting our our house to ground source heat pump. 01:04:23.000 –> 01:04:28.000 It’s. A it’s a process, and you know you have to do your homework in those. 01:04:28.000 –> 01:04:33.000 Those examples are not readily available. Give you a little war story. 01:04:33.000 –> 01:04:40.000 December sixteenth, I got back from 2 weeks of an arbitration on the fundamental property nature of carbon Credits in Washington, DC. 01:04:40.000 –> 01:04:48.000 And our hot water tee heater died, and Cheryl, to your point. 01:04:48.000 –> 01:04:52.000 Why don’t I don’t. I’m in the energy and the carbon business. 01:04:52.000 –> 01:04:53.000 Hmm! 01:04:53.000 –> 01:05:00.000 We moved 3 years ago. I didn’t realize. Okay. We rented our hot water tank. 01:05:00.000 –> 01:05:01.000 So the reality is, you’re busy. You’re managing a bunch of stuff, and you just pay your bill. 01:05:01.000 –> 01:05:07.000 You don’t look at it very carefully, and and that’s a problem right? 01:05:07.000 –> 01:05:08.000 Sure! 01:05:08.000 –> 01:05:22.000 Awareness and transparency is a problem, and the big lesson here was I actually had to fight with both the utility and the alternate Hvac Provider to get a tank less low emission. Hot water solution. 01:05:22.000 –> 01:05:26.000 They’re like. No, you don’t want that. It’s going to take you 10 weeks. 01:05:26.000 –> 01:05:30.000 No, I really 10 days it’s no, I really do want it. 01:05:30.000 –> 01:05:35.000 Well, no, no, just put in a hot hot water tank, you know you don’t understand. 01:05:35.000 –> 01:05:39.000 I want it’s gonna cost you 10 times the amount. 01:05:39.000 –> 01:05:42.000 I won’t it, you know, and I literally had to fight. 01:05:42.000 –> 01:05:43.000 We waited 10 days with intermittent hot water. 01:05:43.000 –> 01:05:50.000 Barely any to get that tankless hot water tank in, and that’s you know. 01:05:50.000 –> 01:06:00.000 That’s in Toronto where it’s accessible and available in terms of why, don’t you know part of the reason is disclosure. 01:06:00.000 –> 01:06:05.000 And this year, when you ask me about trends, I should have talked about this Nathan this year. 01:06:05.000 –> 01:06:13.000 There’s been a huge burgeoning of related disclosure requirements pertaining to climate change how you’re mitigating it, and what you’re using to mitigate it. 01:06:13.000 –> 01:06:22.000 And that started historically with the task force for climate related financial disclosure. 01:06:22.000 –> 01:06:29.000 You ready for another. This is A, T. C, F, d. 01:06:29.000 –> 01:06:30.000 And it’s based on the greenhouse gas protocol. 01:06:30.000 –> 01:06:39.000 Published by Wri and Wwf together, and then there have been a number of regulated disclosure requirements. 01:06:39.000 –> 01:06:45.000 You saw the Canadian Securities administrators come out with 5011107, mandating. 01:06:45.000 –> 01:06:46.000 What climate related disclosure looks like in draft form immediately after you saw the Us. 01:06:46.000 –> 01:06:58.000 Ec come out with their 432 page disclosure document just not yet finalized. 01:06:58.000 –> 01:07:01.000 And then you saw the Csa. Same we’re gonna for date. 01:07:01.000 –> 01:07:04.000 We’re gonna harmonize. So we create consistency in the market. 01:07:04.000 –> 01:07:05.000 And then you saw the formation of the international Sustainability Standards Board. 01:07:05.000 –> 01:07:22.000 Is Sb, get located co-located in Montreal and in Frankfurt, pushing for harmonized global standards based on Ifrs. 01:07:22.000 –> 01:07:26.000 And and so they’ve come out with a couple of discussion documents as well. 01:07:26.000 –> 01:07:45.000 So part of the reason why you don’t know is that there haven’t been enough disclosures, and secondly, the increasingly mandatory nature of those disclosures also provides an opportunity for those who are doing the best have the best decarbonization strategies and are telling people 01:07:45.000 –> 01:07:52.000 precisely what they’re doing and greenwashing claims are also the new flavor of the month. 01:07:52.000 –> 01:08:04.000 I’m gonna say, flavor of the year for environmental Ngos, who are calling out companies who are not doing what they’re saying, they’re doing and who are overreaching on claims. 01:08:04.000 –> 01:08:09.000 And those take really 2 forms. One is the form of a consumer protection, type, complaint, or advertising standards. 01:08:09.000 –> 01:08:11.000 Council type complaint, and the other takes the form of a regulated securities. 01:08:11.000 –> 01:08:16.000 Type complaint, and we’ve seen many, many, many actions that are greenwashing complaints. 01:08:16.000 –> 01:08:24.000 This year, and we’ve done a paper with the Global Risk Institute. 01:08:24.000 –> 01:08:44.000 Janice. Sarah is the lead author. I’m the second author on that paper, looking at all of those complaints, and how they apply to your fiduciary duties, how they apply to management requirements, and how they may be characterized at law Hi brett i’d recommend you 01:08:44.000 –> 01:08:45.000 download that paper, and we’ll send that to you as well. 01:08:45.000 –> 01:08:50.000 Cheryl, just you’ll remind me what I promised to send. 01:08:50.000 –> 01:08:51.000 I know this one. Yeah. 01:08:51.000 –> 01:08:52.000 Yeah, no problem. That is great, because I’m looking at some of the audience members. 01:08:52.000 –> 01:09:09.000 And you know we we’re all, you know, in a network and talk to each other, and several of them had mentioned they said you were coming on, and Nathan and John and I were talking about it and saying, You know, having this information is great but absolutely right. Back. 01:09:09.000 –> 01:09:12.000 To your water tank situation. If you want to go more green if you want to. 01:09:12.000 –> 01:09:16.000 You know, make your facilities more, you know, in line with, you know, reducing your carbon footprint. 01:09:16.000 –> 01:09:29.000 We just really start. Who do you call? And we’re all we have all our traditional lines that we call. 01:09:29.000 –> 01:09:33.000 And we just get the same machines, the same old, you know. 01:09:33.000 –> 01:09:36.000 So we do find it’s a challenge to get out of that routine of just calling another rented, you know. 01:09:36.000 –> 01:09:46.000 Tank, or whatever whatever it is. It’s also funding the people who have gone through this process and understand what to do. 01:09:46.000 –> 01:09:47.000 For sure! 01:09:47.000 –> 01:09:50.000 Yeah, at a corporate level in terms of the consulting side. 01:09:50.000 –> 01:10:00.000 I would. There’s the class of developers, so that would be Anu and be more radical would be the 2 big ones in the Canadian marketplace. 01:10:00.000 –> 01:10:03.000 There are many others for forestry on the consultancy side. 01:10:03.000 –> 01:10:07.000 There was something recently published. We see Deloitte quite often. 01:10:07.000 –> 01:10:20.000 We see Bcg. And Mckenzie are playing a more active role. But all of the Big 4 have some semblance of decarbonization strategy, so you can often get that from your auditor. 01:10:20.000 –> 01:10:26.000 Hey! We’re a couple of comments from Emma and Jim about greenwashing, so we’ll take a look at later. Lisa. 01:10:26.000 –> 01:10:27.000 By the way, I was gonna give a bottle of Cuban ROM to anyone who could stump you, but I think I’m safe. 01:10:27.000 –> 01:10:34.000 No one’s gonna be able to do that in the last few minutes. 01:10:34.000 –> 01:10:43.000 Here. I had a question about targets or dates, like almost every company, has a 2030 target and a twenty-fifty car. 01:10:43.000 –> 01:10:54.000 That target, and then they’ll say, you know, for 2050 we have no idea the technology is not invented yet, but hopefully, you know, it will be so. 01:10:54.000 –> 01:11:00.000 They can get two-thirds of the way, you know, before that, knowing what they know, and then, you know, 2050, maybe, is more aspirational. 01:11:00.000 –> 01:11:03.000 Do you have a comment about that? 01:11:03.000 –> 01:11:24.000 Yeah, the best companies actually have a line of sight on 2050, and then they have interim targets for twenty-thirty with a clear knowledge of how you’re getting there for 2830, 2035, 2040 2045, and then 12, for example, our 01:11:24.000 –> 01:11:25.000 iterative on those plans, and I think that’s key. 01:11:25.000 –> 01:11:33.000 This is back to your point, Cheryl, and not letting perfection be the enemy of the good you wanna update those plans. 01:11:33.000 –> 01:11:42.000 5 years ago, carbon removals through negative emissions, technologies and direct air capture we’re not an active part of the commercial world. 01:11:42.000 –> 01:11:50.000 2025, we will have completion. Commercial operation, date on one of the world’s first plant. 01:11:50.000 –> 01:11:57.000 So you want to continually renew that. And that’s important for your stakeholders and your disclosures as well. 01:11:57.000 –> 01:12:10.000 Scientific method, as you all know, probably coming from science backgrounds, is based on a hypothesis and trying to negate a hypothesis and ask the science changes. 01:12:10.000 –> 01:12:16.000 You want to update your related plans, you want to make sure they’re accurate line of sight. 01:12:16.000 –> 01:12:17.000 Targets are there, the related activities in the suite of your sector. 01:12:17.000 –> 01:12:30.000 Your industry there, and often a pressure relief valve in the form of removals offsets, or insets, and really insets have many, many benefits. 01:12:30.000 –> 01:12:47.000 They make your existing supply chain stickier, and in a world where supply chains are challenged by inflation, by trade, protectionism, by geopolitics, making your supply chain stick. 01:12:47.000 –> 01:12:55.000 Here is very helpful. So there’s a lot a lot to think about, and what we’ve seen regularly. 01:12:55.000 –> 01:12:59.000 Nathan is. So people go out with. 01:12:59.000 –> 01:13:08.000 Target from that strategy, and once it gets limited, there’s over compliance. 01:13:08.000 –> 01:13:14.000 Once people understand the power of the market. There’s, in fact, over compliance. 01:13:14.000 –> 01:13:21.000 So that’s pretty interesting for me. That shows just how powerful the instrument is. 01:13:21.000 –> 01:13:27.000 There’s another pool there. I like this one. 01:13:27.000 –> 01:13:31.000 I guess it depends on your food choice, but if your car goes through a type of food, but would they be so? 01:13:31.000 –> 01:13:35.000 Let’s see, Lisa, how much you’ve suede the group we do have. 01:13:35.000 –> 01:13:50.000 You know, we saw earlier this, you know, some people not necessarily believing in it right now, or just understanding but I think you’ve made that you’ve convinced me on the idea that there has to be a fair bit of transparency. 01:13:50.000 –> 01:14:00.000 And I didn’t really, actually understand just how much regulation was going into this and the oversight going on there’s still questions like, How do you how do you ensure this? 01:14:00.000 –> 01:14:09.000 How do you make sure everybody’s following along? There’s still tons of questions in the in the chat here, but you’ve definitely convinced me more. Here. 01:14:09.000 –> 01:14:10.000 Yeah, and I should regulated bye? 01:14:10.000 –> 01:14:15.000 Well, the in the no. Go ahead, at least go ahead. 01:14:15.000 –> 01:14:27.000 I should mention that all of the regulated systems, particularly in Canada, have an audit function, and the Government does periodically and randomly audit the offsets that are created. 01:14:27.000 –> 01:14:35.000 If they’re in a compliance system. Similarly, some of the voluntary standards have the ability to audit and do. 01:14:35.000 –> 01:14:43.000 I would point to in particular the gold standard, which is really quite good in that regard. 01:14:43.000 –> 01:14:47.000 I’m gonna give you one more question, and then you can leave us with anything you’d like. 01:14:47.000 –> 01:14:54.000 So if I was able to give you the magic one, what would you like to change in this area? 01:14:54.000 –> 01:15:18.000 Hmm? Oh, tough question, tough question. I think if you were to give me the magic wand I would have a global compliance system that played by the exact same rules for what a carbon credit is, how it’s created, how it can be used. 01:15:18.000 –> 01:15:29.000 And really facilitated trans boundary transactions to hit those targets faster. 01:15:29.000 –> 01:15:39.000 Right now we have a fairly fragmented system, with many rules, small differences, and we need some standardization to reach that. 01:15:39.000 –> 01:15:47.000 I take out the fraudsters as well. 01:15:47.000 –> 01:15:48.000 Awesome. 01:15:48.000 –> 01:15:53.000 There are definitely some prosters in the market that you have to be careful for, and we come across and we see contracts come across our desk where we just kinda. 01:15:53.000 –> 01:15:54.000 Oh, boy! 01:15:54.000 –> 01:15:57.000 As I say, don’t worth the paper it’s written on, you know. 01:15:57.000 –> 01:16:00.000 There’s no verification. That standard doesn’t exist, not worth the paper it’s written on. 01:16:00.000 –> 01:16:08.000 So yeah, I wouldn’t. I would be an overseer that wave the magic Wand. 01:16:08.000 –> 01:16:16.000 And really had transparent, clear, and certain standards that were applied uniformly in a very big way. 01:16:16.000 –> 01:16:19.000 We don’t have enough of it going on right now. 01:16:19.000 –> 01:16:22.000 I almost stumped you. I almost won my own bottle of rum. 01:16:22.000 –> 01:16:23.000 No! 01:16:23.000 –> 01:16:31.000 There was one good question that came in. If it’s a short one, it it was from Ernie about with small companies. 01:16:31.000 –> 01:16:40.000 So react the same way as big companies for Stage 3 emissions? Or what can small companies do? 01:16:40.000 –> 01:16:43.000 Small companies would really benefit from standardized approaches to measuring, monitoring, and reporting on the scope 3 emissions. 01:16:43.000 –> 01:16:55.000 And if you look at the Canadian securities, administrators approach. 01:16:55.000 –> 01:17:03.000 There was a staggering between big and small in terms of what was required, and the more we can get make the job easier. 01:17:03.000 –> 01:17:08.000 I’m a small company. So I I certainly relate to the administrative burden. 01:17:08.000 –> 01:17:11.000 The more we can make that job easier. By saying, Here’s your template. 01:17:11.000 –> 01:17:12.000 Here’s what you do. Here’s an example of how it’s done. 01:17:12.000 –> 01:17:20.000 Go! Do it. That would be fantastic, or do it by class. 01:17:20.000 –> 01:17:32.000 Small companies from this. Here’s your default data, unless you tell us you’re much better than the default, or worse than the default. 01:17:32.000 –> 01:17:34.000 So before. I thank a few people. Lisa’s. 01:17:34.000 –> 01:17:37.000 There any words you want to leave us with anything? I didn’t ask about that. 01:17:37.000 –> 01:17:41.000 You’d like to tell the audience. 01:17:41.000 –> 01:17:48.000 Yeah, I think that in particular, the asset class has power, and in particular has power for the extractive sector. 01:17:48.000 –> 01:18:10.000 So you can go and add it reactively or proactively, and I can almost guarantee that if you are proactive about your awareness, realization, and potential monetization of carbon as an asset class in your operations, you will do much better than your competitors and 01:18:10.000 –> 01:18:16.000 cohorts who go at it reactively, so lots to find out. 01:18:16.000 –> 01:18:17.000 And I do agree with salad. 01:18:17.000 –> 01:18:18.000 Great. 01:18:18.000 –> 01:18:24.000 Well, we’re in the lunch zone in the Ontario and Alberta. 01:18:24.000 –> 01:18:25.000 So maybe that’s skewed this a little bit. 01:18:25.000 –> 01:18:27.000 But Lisa first of all, thank you. Thank you so much for your time. 01:18:27.000 –> 01:18:32.000 I know you’re very busy, and we really do appreciate it. 01:18:32.000 –> 01:18:35.000 You’re certainly a wealth of knowledge in this area. 01:18:35.000 –> 01:18:38.000 I think all of us picked up some tidbits. 01:18:38.000 –> 01:18:45.000 So thank you for that. I’d like to thank the co-host Cheryl, and Jan for putting this together. 01:18:45.000 –> 01:18:49.000 Our platform is the smarten up inst Institute. So we have, Laurie. 01:18:49.000 –> 01:18:52.000 We have Sarah and we have Jim online. But most importantly, thank you. 01:18:52.000 –> 01:19:04.000 To the audience, always engaging, always asking lots of questions, always chatting among themselves, and we’ll make sure you get a transcript Lisa, because it’s hard to see all the chats going on well, while you’re talking. 01:19:04.000 –> 01:19:10.000 But you’ll see some good questions came in there, so thank you, Lisa. 01:19:10.000 –> 01:19:13.000 Thanks everyone. We do appreciate it. 01:19:13.000 –> 01:19:14.000 Thank you. 01:19:14.000 –> 01:19:22.000 Oh, my pleasure, a sticking! If I can answer anything that hasn’t been unanswered after this I will go online and do so so you can send them out with those links. 01:19:22.000 –> 01:19:23.000 Great thanks, so much. 01:19:23.000 –> 01:19:28.000 That’s great. For everyone’s online. We have a bits and bytes. 01:19:28.000 –> 01:19:36.000 Web site that has all this information. There will be a transcript that’s put out in a video as well we’ve recorded today. 01:19:36.000 –> 01:19:42.000 So you can access that anytime. It’s with your registration, and it’s free. 01:19:42.000 –> 01:19:47.000 And we’re here to bring a new perspectives and ideas that are floating around. 01:19:47.000 –> 01:19:49.000 And, as you could see, Lisa has a wealth of knowledge, and we will be able to send that information to her, and you can also connect with us if you need any further information. 01:19:49.000 –> 01:20:08.000 Thank you. 01:20:08.000 –> 01:20:11.000 Hope you’re getting some applause there, Lisa. 01:20:11.000 –> 01:20:12.000 Thanks, Marie. 01:20:12.000 –> 01:20:17.000 Great. 01:20:17.000 –> 01:20:21.000 Lisa, do you have 10 s? 01:20:21.000 –> 01:20:25.000 I’m curious about your view on nuclear power, because, like in mining, people are looking at, you know, modular reactors. 01:20:25.000 –> 01:20:38.000 So from a Co 2, perspective positive. But do you do you have a personal view on how, by the way, you’re muted above nuclear reactor? 01:20:38.000 –> 01:20:43.000 Yeah. Full disclosure. I used to sit on the board of Directors of Ontario power generation. 01:20:43.000 –> 01:20:46.000 I think nuclear is part of the solution. 01:20:46.000 –> 01:20:58.000 It’s not a one. Size fits all. So in particular, I’m interested in a small modular actors, and the very small modulo reactors, which are looking at that second generation fuel. 01:20:58.000 –> 01:21:04.000 So more circular economy approaches to the use of the fuel. 01:21:04.000 –> 01:21:10.000 The, I’ll send to the room with the clear. Always this. 01:21:10.000 –> 01:21:22.000 How do we deal with the waste? Particularly with large so it has a role. If you look at the Iea, the international energy agencies approach to nuclear, it’s definitely critical part of the energy transition. 01:21:22.000 –> 01:21:28.000 But there are also a number of other things that are are fairly key in that transition, as well. 01:21:28.000 –> 01:21:35.000 The recording’s piece in particular, being one of them using direct air capture to capture the Co. 01:21:35.000 –> 01:21:40.000 2. And actually using that as a form of synthetic fuel as well as a key. 01:21:40.000 –> 01:21:47.000 So lots going on. And this is really this, is that answer, Nathan, like everything everywhere all the time, right now, this is such a societal shift it’s part of the solution. 01:21:47.000 –> 01:21:54.000 It’s not the only solution. 01:21:54.000 –> 01:21:57.000 Yeah, cause we’re looking at that as one of our future topics. 01:21:57.000 –> 01:22:01.000 So that’s kind of why it was in my mind. Stuff. 01:22:01.000 –> 01:22:06.000 Yeah, I suggest, Nicole Butcher at Opg. 01:22:06.000 –> 01:22:12.000 She’s great, ken Heartwalk heart wicked Opg, or someone from Bruce. 01:22:12.000 –> 01:22:13.000 Nuclear was also interesting, or somebody from the World Association of Nuclear Operators.
Chat
00:44:05 Jim Frey: Welcome Everyone! Where are you joining us from today?
00:44:41 Jim Kambossos: Bantrel – Toronto
00:45:18 Jim Frey: Hello Jim.
00:45:23 Marianne Quimpere: Fort Saskatchewan
00:45:34 Jim Frey: Tampa Florida
00:46:43 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: HI Everyone! Bring on your great questions – Lisa is very knowledgeable
00:48:22 Jim Frey: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/lisa-elisabeth-demarco-22b2163
00:48:56 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: What happens when a forest goes on fire?
00:49:10 Jan Smit: How are carbon credit arrangements balanced internationally? How do we maintain international fairness?
00:52:44 Jan Smit: How do you view the debate around sustainability being a consideration in investing, or not?
00:52:55 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Does OPG show this anywhere?
00:53:24 Cooper Quinn: Very important to differentiate between reduction offsets and carbon removal, Nathan.
And the durability of different solutions.
00:53:57 Jim Frey: Credits versus taxes?
00:54:36 Bert Huls: How do you police the exchange of carbon credits. Or is policing necessary?
00:54:41 Jan Smit: Can carbon credits be banked, like money? Or do they expire?
00:55:45 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Great point Cooper
00:56:02 Jim Kambossos: How is this all monitored?
00:56:52 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: how can we get everyone on 1 page?
00:57:09 Jim Frey: John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p8zAbFKpW0
00:58:31 Jan Smit: How do we get greater visibility into carbon trading – like the stock market, as it were?
00:59:26 Jim Kambossos: ok, Canada is compliant, how about the implementation around the world? How responsive are other countries?
00:59:36 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Looks like we are all trying to figure out about managing/policing carbon credits.
01:01:38 Jim Kambossos: To achieve net-zero, it seems like a whole new type of supply chain system needs to be implemented.
01:01:54 Jan Smit: There is a lot of debate around NOx as well – will this go the way of carbon trading?
01:04:47 Jim Frey: Was the Kyoto mechanism effective?
01:05:35 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: great follow up Bert
01:07:29 Jan Smit: Could you give your opinion on the EU Cross Border Carbon Tax?
01:08:47 Cooper Quinn – CO2 Lock Corp: Can you speak to how you see the CDR/offset markets evolving given some of the challenges with nature based solutions, increasing focus on durability, and current costs of technology based solutions? Will compliance markets shift/adapt; I’d argue some of this is happening in the voluntary markets, but curious to hear your thoughts.
01:11:33 Jim Kambossos: So, basically, I’ll be paying higher prices for tickets. Will this extend to every aspect of life? So, if it’s quasi-voluntary, why would anyone pay higher prices? I don’t think the majority of people have a sacrificial attitude towards net-zero.
01:11:34 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Copper has a great question
01:11:58 Jan Smit: The project examples sound like a lot of work – what is the minimum viable project size?
01:13:35 Jim Frey: Reacted to “So, basically, I’ll …” with 😯
01:17:13 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: we definitely have skeptics :)
01:17:17 Bobbie Thoman: Is there a link to the study available ?
01:18:51 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: looks lie transparency is key here
01:19:44 Jim Frey: Reacted to “looks lie transparen…” with 👍
01:21:49 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: We just jammed Kelly’s DM :)
01:22:56 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Rio TInto ICIMM
01:24:45 Cooper Quinn – CO2 Lock Corp: Here’s another fun internet calculator related to permanence and costs: https://carbonplan.org/research/permanence-calculator
01:25:02 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Reacted to “Here’s another fun i…” with 👍
01:25:06 Sherritt Bits&Bytes: It’s ICMM – International Council on Mining and Metals
01:25:44 Jim Frey: https://www.icmm.com/
01:26:11 Jim Frey: https://www.icmm.com/en-gb/our-story/our-members/company-members/rio-tinto
01:27:21 Jim Frey: https://carbonpricingdashboard.worldbank.org/
01:30:07 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: ask your questions…Lisa is at the forefront
01:31:00 Jim Frey: https://earth.org/greenwashing-companies-corporations/
01:31:06 Emma Malcolm: new disclosure regulatory requirements are geared towards eliminating greenwashing potential. statements of being ‘green’ and net zero targets are expected to be substantiated with evidence of mitigation (i.e. demonstrated capital expenditures to support claims)
01:32:02 Jim Frey: VW, BP, ExxonMobil…
01:32:26 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: thanks Emma
01:32:39 Jan Smit: The focus in this discussion is on regulation – could you reflect on the pace of technical development and implementation required?
01:32:55 Jim Frey: Nestle, Starbucks, Nestle…all Called Out For Greenwashing
01:33:18 Jim Frey: Reacted to “new disclosure regul…” with 👏
01:35:35 Emma Malcolm: decarbonization roadmaps (or line of sight) are needed for each target. near-term target roadmaps should be based on existing technologies.
01:35:46 Emma Malcolm: have to click off for another meeting. thank you for excellent insights Lisa. appreciate you sharing your expertise.
01:35:46 Bobbie Thoman: I hope carbon credits aren’t steak !!
01:36:08 Jim Frey: LOL Bobbie
01:36:13 Sherritt Bits&Bytes: 2024 the SEC has confirmed all public and private companies in the US MUST report their ESG disclosures. If they don’t, they start imposing penalties in 2025. IIROC also will require reporting by 2024 – for public companies only at this time. by 2025 IFRS (an amalgam of SASB and GRI (will be announced soon) will require that all companies tie their ESG disclosures to financial statements. Also – all reports will need to be in an XBRL output – what does this mean? It means no more graphic designers creating the ESG report only factual and transparent #’s
01:37:24 Ernie Levinski: How would a small firm manage Scope 3 emissions ?
01:40:12 Cooper Quinn – CO2 Lock Corp: Thanks so much everyone – I have to bounce to another call.
Happy to connect with anyone on linkedin.
01:40:21 Cheryl Hart – ONTASK Strategies: Reacted to “Thanks so much every…” with 👍
01:40:33 Jim Kambossos: Quite enlightening, thank you!
01:40:54 Bert Huls: great presentation
01:40:56 Jim Frey: Reacted to “Thanks so much every…” with 👍
01:41:18 Morgan Cox: A very insightful webinar!
01:41:27 Vijay Reddy: Thank you
01:41:28 Sherritt Bits&Bytes: Thank you everyone for your excellent questions and comments!
01:42:09 Sherritt Bits&Bytes: https://sherritt.smartdirect.ca/
01:42:18 Jan Smit: https://carboncredits.com/amazon-new-carbon-credit-label-abacus-vcu/
01:42:28 Mike Lodwig: Thanks
01:52:27 Jim Frey: Have a fabulous day everyone!
Deepen Your Carbon Credit Knowledge
Guest Speaker:
- Lisa DeMarco, CEO of Resilient
Lisa DeMarco, Senior Partner and CEO at Resilient LLP, is recognized as a Canadian and
international expert in climate and energy law. She has over 25 years of experience in law, regulation, policy, and advocacy relating to all aspects of climate change and clean energy.
Lisa advises leading financial and energy companies and Indigenous business organizations and plays an active role for Fortune 500 companies in corporate ESG, climate change, transition strategy, target setting, and compliance. Lisa also represents several governments and leading energy companies in a wide variety of natural gas, power, pipeline and energy storage matters before the Ontario Energy Board and the Canada Energy Regulator (previously the National Energy Board). She also regularly attends and advises on related United Nations climate negotiations.
Lisa is a director of the boards of the Advanced Energy Centre at MaRS and Radicle Inc., chair of the International Emissions Trading Association, and was a member of the consultation group for the Task Force on Scaling Voluntary Carbon Markets.
Who’s Who Legal (WWL) has recognized Lisa as a “Global Elite Thought Leader” in Climate Change Law. She is ranked by Chambers Global as one of the world’s leading climate change lawyers. Lisa is also ranked and repeatedly recommended by Legal Lexpert Directory, International Who’s Who, and Chambers Canada as a leading energy (oil, gas and electricity) and environment lawyer.
Some useful reading:
